I am doing the RTW trip http://www.dmcity.com/slarty/route.html

Currently in Canada.

Arriving CYQX Gander, RC gave me an ILS for Rwy 13 (but there isn't one listed) when I flew it the alignment was way off

RC gave me Rwy 4 to depart but the nearest is Ryw 03!

Landing at Moncton, RC gave me an ILS for Rwy 06 but again there isn't one listed and when I tried to fly it, it was completely wrong.

I am pretty sure I ran the Rebuild Scenery DB when I installed RC and I haven't added any scenery since (added a/c).

Is there a reason here to run rebiuld again? Will it cause any problems?

 

Thanks

Nigel

Actually, there is an ILS 13... There is no runway 4 however. You might try downloading the latest version of makerwys.exe here: http://forum.simflight.com/topic/66136-useful-additional-programs/ and put it in the main FS directory and then run the Rebuild Scenery DB function and see if it makes a difference.

 

DJ

Make sure you download the latest makerwys.exe version first and that it's set to 'Run as administrator".

 

EDIT: The rwy 3/rwy 4 issue is due to magnetic variation changing over the years. It would take updated AFCAD files to correct that. (Or just use older charts! )

Edited March 28, 201412 yr by olli4740

Thanks for those quick replies. I will try makerwys.exe at the next opportunity.

I am using skyvector.com and landings.com for my airfield info and didn't see an Rwy13 ILS at Gander listed there?

 

Nigel

RC uses runways pulled from your installed scenery including ILS data if given. As stated, be sure you have rebuilt your scenery database using the latest makerwys. Scenery data is collected using the priority setup in your FS scenery library.

 

RC uses a fixed database for comm frequencies.

 

If you use current charts that differ from your installed scenery then you might have a conflict.

 

You can edit the installed scenery afd type files using payware or the freeware Airport Design Editor:

 

http://www.airportdesigneditor.co.uk/

 

which is safer for editing add-on scenery especially.

I am using skyvector.com and landings.com for my airfield info and didn't see an Rwy13 ILS at Gander listed there?

Check the current charts at http://www.fltplan.com/. You'll have to get a log-in but it's free.

 

DJ

I've been slow to report back on this one.

I have run makerwys.exe succesfully, but apart from the next flight which seemed to be OK.

All subsequent ones (where there has been an ILS) the instruments are not showing it correctly.

In the main, showing the localiser off to the wrong side!

I keep double checking the details and myself, but it seems regularly to be this way.

I am flying the Realair Duke v2 and I wonder if that could be anything to do with it?

I will have to fly some approach variations with different aircraft and different runways to try and isolate the situations where this is occuring.

 

Nigel

In FS stock scenery they enabled the back course as default. If the same frequency is used on opposing ends of the same or close runways the aircraft will pick up the wrong one giving a reverse indication as well as incorrect glide slopes uintil you are within two degrees of the extended center line. It is a good idea to confirm the identity of the ILS/LOC received either by listening to the morse code (it is on charts) or if your panel supports it the displayed ident. This can be corrected with an airport editor like ADE which can handle FS9, FSX, and lately P3D scenery.

 

I personally do not recommend afcad221 be used for FS9 as that early incarnation can't handle some of the scenery elements in a file tagged as an af type (airport facilities) and can corrupt or clip additional scenery elements.

 

RC reports the ILS/LOC from makerwys as pulled from your scenery. Makerwys creates r5.csv in yourt FS folder which is copied as r4.csv in your RC/data folder and then a4.csv (calculated airport coordinates for center reference) is created from that. In your FS folder resides a makerwysReadMe.txt folder which documents the r5.csv layouot among other items. If you look at a .csv file used by RC do not open it in a database or spreadsheet application as it will corrupt it. Use Wordpad or Notepad text editors and always save as a DOS text type. It is a good idea to back them up.

Thanks.

I will fly some test approaches and try to narrow down what I am seeing happening.

I don't think I am on a 'back course' at least at the last two airfields (KATL and KMIA).

and I was on a reasonably good approach (height and direction)

 

Nigel

Default FS9 KATL:

 

KATL,0081,33.649525,-84.439049,1026,93.480,8990,109.30BDG,150,-3.500,33.649529,-84.424240,0,,
KATL,0082,33.646782,-84.438393,1026,93.480,9988,109.90BDG,150,-3.500,33.646786,-84.421936,0,,
KATL,0091,33.634701,-84.447998,1026,93.500,11876,110.50BG,150,-3.500,33.634701,-84.428436,0,,
KATL,0092,33.631809,-84.447990,1026,93.480,8990,108.90BDG,150,-3.500,33.631813,-84.433182,0,,
KATL,0261,33.646790,-84.405479,1026,273.480,9988,108.70BG,150,-3.500,33.646786,-84.421936,0,,
KATL,0262,33.649532,-84.409431,1026,273.480,8990,110.10BDG,150,-3.500,33.649529,-84.424240,0,,
KATL,0271,33.631817,-84.418373,1026,273.480,8990,108.50BDG,150,-3.500,33.631813,-84.433182,0,,
KATL,0272,33.634701,-84.408875,1026,273.500,11876,111.30BG,150,-3.500,33.634701,-84.428436,0,,
 

No duplicate frequencies but the backcourse is enabled (the B).

 

KMIA:

 

KMIA,0081,25.802801,-80.301224,8,92.047,8490,109.30BDG,150,-4.900,25.803381,-80.288307,0,CT,
KMIA,0082,25.800652,-80.301041,8,91.940,10320,110.30BDG,200,-4.900,25.801382,-80.285339,0,,CL
KMIA,0090,25.785934,-80.314369,8,92.050,12888,110.90BDG,150,-4.900,25.786814,-80.294762,1350,,CL
KMIA,0120,25.799252,-80.302177,8,124.450,9354,108.90BDG,150,-4.900,25.792925,-80.289780,0,CT,
KMIA,0261,25.802113,-80.269638,8,271.940,10320,109.10BDG,200,-4.900,25.801382,-80.285339,0,,CL
KMIA,0262,25.803961,-80.275391,8,272.047,8490,109.30BDG,150,-4.900,25.803381,-80.288307,0,CT,
KMIA,0270,25.787693,-80.275154,8,272.050,12888,109.50BDG,150,-4.900,25.786814,-80.294762,1158,,CL
KMIA,0300,25.786598,-80.277382,8,304.450,9354,111.70BD,150,-4.900,25.792925,-80.289780,939,CT,

default has runway 8L-26R backcourse enabled same 109.30 ILS/LOC.

 

In both as you fly around the pattern you will still get ghosts on your tuned frequencies.

 

This is NOT an RC function affecting your aircraft.

Ronzie,

Thanks for that tho' I don't really understand those sets of figures.

However I flew KMIA again today and approached both Rwy 12 and Rwy 30 on their respective ILS and they worked fine (it was Rwy12 that gave me the problem last time).

So I can't think what caused it to apparently not work before and with some previous fields too.

I will be watching closely from now on and if it happens again I will try to fly the approach again to try and understand it or find out why.

In all the cases the landing was after a number of hours of flying, whereas my test today was flying quick circuits. Although that doesn't seem a reasonable explanation in itself.

 

Nigel

If you are in a typical pattern entering crosswind and going around you will see the wrong side of the ILS of its back course in enabled as in the defaults. You have to be situation aware and know when to turn inbound from base insuring you are on the correct heading on final and the localizer needle starts moving toward center as it should.

Yes I do understand that, but in the instances I was finding problems it was on approach to that runway and within 5 or so degree of the extended centreline.

So I think the localiser should have been showing itself to the correct side. I am still trying to understand the situation that I found. But haven't been to that many ILS airfields recently.

As I said when I flew Miami again yesterday it all worked fine. So whether it is occurring due to my misunderstanding or some error that grows after a number of hours flying,

I still have to get to the bottom of it.

 

Thanks

Nigel

Did you look for the ILS ID either on the primary instrument display, enhanced nav display or via the nav1 audio? The Morse code is printed on the chart.

 

The current charts for KMIA show a change for the ILS/LOC of 26R to DHP at 113.0 from the original duplicate frequency at the reciprocal end 8L of 109.3.

 

In that table in my reply the bold numbers are the ILS/LOC frequency column. The first column is the ICAO airport identification. The second column is the runway type and designator. Ignore the first number for now. The second and third number is the runway numeric as 08 = runway 8 and 26 = runway 26. The forth number indicates  an extension of the runway number to indicate:

 

0 = nothing

1 = Left

2 = Right

3 = Center

 

so 0081 = runway 8L and 0082 = runway 8R

0261 = runway 26R and 0262 = runway 26L

 

0090 = runway 9 and 0270 = runway 27

 

The frequencies for the ILS/LOC are pulled from your installed scenery and where more than one instance of an airport facilities data file exists (such as an add-on afcad for a stock airport) the highest priority as determined by entries in the fs library file (scenery.cfg) determine the entries placed in those tables (r4.csv).

 

Now if your charts are current or later than the scenery data in fs default or add-on airport you may have a conflict. Such would be the case for 26R where the ident and frequency is different between current and FS9 in my installation.

 

If you tune the frequency as noted by RC, then your aircraft ILS/LOC should work OK since your RAW data instruments will use the scenery data. Some aircraft models, the PMDG 747 is one I think, tune the nav1 receiver as indicated in its FMC database (AIRAC) instead of pulling from your scenery so that needs checking.

 

Now let us look at a few lines from my KMIA table:

 

KMIA,0081,25.802801,-80.301224,8,92.047,8490,109.30BDG,150,-4.900,25.803381,-80.288307,0,CT,
KMIA,0082,25.800652,-80.301041,8,91.940,10320,110.30BDG,200,-4.900,25.801382,-80.285339,0,,CL
KMIA,0090,25.785934,-80.314369,8,92.050,12888,110.90BDG,150,-4.900,25.786814,-80.294762,1350,,CL
KMIA,0120,25.799252,-80.302177,8,124.450,9354,108.90BDG,150,-4.900,25.792925,-80.289780,0,CT,
KMIA,0261,25.802113,-80.269638,8,271.940,10320,109.10BDG,200,-4.900,25.801382,-80.285339,0,,CL
KMIA,0262,25.803961,-80.275391,8,272.047,8490,109.30BDG,150,-4.900,25.803381,-80.288307,0,CT,
KMIA,0270,25.787693,-80.275154,8,272.050,12888,109.50BDG,150,-4.900,25.786814,-80.294762,1158,,CL
KMIA,0300,25.786598,-80.277382,8,304.450,9354,111.70BD,150,-4.900,25.792925,-80.289780,939,CT

 

runway 0081 - 8L. 109.30 is the ILS frequency. B is back course enabled. D is DME enabled, G is glide slope enabled. Not used by RC in the last column is CT - Closed for Takeoff or CL -  Closed for landing. FS does not recognize one way runways for ai and both ends of a runway must match to be effective.

 

Now for technique:

 

You may have a compass slaved gyro RMI in your instrument panel that will work off nav 1 and 2 or one of those plus an ADF beacon. Look for switches on its mount.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_direction_finder#Radio-magnetic_indicator_.28RMI.29

 

This type works for ADF beacons and VORs. The scale is slaved to your direction gyro so straight  up represents the nose of your aircraft and the index is you mag heading. In VOR mode it will point to your nav 1 or nav 2 (single or double body arrow) including a localizer transmitter as I recall. This can help with situational awareness as it should be pointing as you work the pattern to an on field VOR (if tuned as such) or the localizer. If tuned to the localizer and the arrow points to the top index where your nose is and the mag heading reads close to your expected inbound course on final your localizer needle on your VOR indicator used as an ILS should work correctly.

 

A similar technique can be used by looking at your GPS display track where you see the airport ahead of your nose and if magnified the runways and your track reading should be the inbound course as published.

 

Regarding the 5 degree extended center line window where you have the FS deception of both back courses turned on for the same frequency at reciprocal runway ends, you may not receive the correct ILS/LOC until within 3 degrees of the extended center line. I always check the Morse Code display ident or dash-dot audio via the speaker ( as published on the charts depending on the panel facilities).

 

I know this is a lot to digest but you can check the "truth" of your instrument readings with this backup plan.

Ronzie,

 

Thanks very much for all that info.

I will try and use the technique the next time I have an ILS equipped field to fly in. I am currently in the Virgin Islands on my RTW trip and so just smaller fields.

I appreciate your efforts in trying to help me understand.

I do recognise that the situation awareness is all important and sometimes I know I do get confused.

 

Nigel