Michael. What you are talking about is called an Offset Localizer. In this case the localizer is not on the runway centreline, but offset and lined up to bring the aircraft over the threshold at decision height. In the flight sim world you can move localizers but you should check the charts to see if in real life they are offset or not. If the navdata data gives a localizer course and you move the localizer then the course will be off. The only way I can see is to change the course of the navaid in ADS to the runway heading, then change the data in the navdata. Seems a lot of work to do when you can just run a program to sort out the magnetic variation. But each to there own.

CYTZ uses Offset ILS Localizers. Nothing is amiss - its how it is in the real world. :)
Check the "Charts" directory and pull up the ILS and Aerodrome charts; you'll see that on both RWY08/26 the LOCs are offset quite a bit (3-6 degrees) to avoid downtown obstacles.
There is no Glideslope on RWY26.
Hence, You will not be able to do any type of "auto-land" at CYTZ - Just like real life. :)

****
I did an internet search.
I found the above information in the comments posted ant the bottom of this page:
 http://forums.x-pilot.com/files/file/479-cytz-toronto-island-airport/


So, as far as I can tell there is nothing wrong with the stock P3D (or FSX) CYYZ or CYTZ airports.

A case of pebkac, me thinks. I fly the Q400 into cytz on a weekly basis without issue. 

 

  regards, Jazz

A case of pebkac, me thinks. I fly the Q400 into cytz on a weekly basis without issue. 

 

  regards, Jazz

 

Good,

You are a good source of information then.

 

I do not fly into CYTZ and I noticed their runways are rather short ..

 

So, the RWY 33 (2780') approach using the offset LOC (XTL ident)  ... I would guess it is a LOC only (no G/S) followed by a circle to land?

CYTZ doesn't allow jets, although Porter has applied to the city to change that. I usually land on rwy 08/26 in the Q400. Rwy 33 is a NDB/DME B (ITZ). At least, that's the most recent (2012) chart I have. The beauty of fsx is the charts do not have to be changed. As chart reading isn't my strong suit, have a look here; http://www.ivao.ca/charts/CAP4/CYTZ.pdf.

 

regards, Jazz.

CYTZ doesn't allow jets, although Porter has applied to the city to change that. I usually land on rwy 08/26 in the Q400. Rwy 33 is a NDB/DME B (ITZ). At least, that's the most recent (2012) chart I have. The beauty of fsx is the charts do not have to be changed. As chart reading isn't my strong suit, have a look here; http://www.ivao.ca/charts/CAP4/CYTZ.pdf.

 

regards, Jazz.

 

Thoes charts are several years old.

 

Thy these:

Canadian charts

 

Toronto FIR charts, 29MAY2014

 

http://czyz.ca/charts

 

 

But, still no info on the LOC for rwy 33 at CYTZ??

Thanx for the link, vonmar. Those will come in handy, and will be much needed after I update the P3D navdata.

 

Cheers, Jazz.

Thanx for the link, vonmar. Those will come in handy, and will be much needed after I update the P3D navdata.

 

Cheers, Jazz.

 

Where do you get updated P3D Navdata?

Updated navaids, fixes, and magnetic variation, from Herve Sors.  Link:  http://www.aero.sors.fr/

About CYTZ; With it being such a small, privately owned/operated airport, with a limited number of aircraft movements permitted,  having a localizer for rw33 probably isn't economically viable. IMO.

 

  cheers, Jazz.

Updated navaids, fixes, and magnetic variation, from Herve Sors.  Link:  http://www.aero.sors.fr/

About CYTZ; With it being such a small, privately owned/operated airport, with a limited number of aircraft movements permitted,  having a localizer for rw33 probably isn't economically viable. IMO.

 

  cheers, Jazz.

 

But the offset LOC is there ... we just need to know the procedure that it is used for.

 

I thought you using IVAO and flying into CYTZ weekly .. you would have contact with the pilots and procedures there?

 

"Updated navaids, fixes, and magnetic variation, from Herve Sors.  Link "

 

Navdata, as I use it in payware aircraft,  is SID/STAR/approach procedures .. updated monthly but nothing from Herve Sors.

 

This offset LOC we are talking about at CYTZ has been there for years ... and is already part of the FSX/P3D model/structure.

The navdata in the aircraft is updated monthly, this includes update navdata, SIDS, STARS, runway changes etc. This is loaded into the flight computer and enables the flight computer to fly the plane.

 

The update navaids from Herve Sors is to update the navaids in FSX. These do not physically change location on the earth, but as the earth spins the magnetic variation changes. FSX was made in 2006 and as such had the navigational information made for that year, we are now in 2014 so the magnetic variation has changed. As runway heading are magnetic headings, the ones in FSX can be different to the ones in the navdata in the aircraft as. One is old, one is new. So you have two options, find navdata from 2006 to load in the aircraft or update the FSX ones with the ones from the link you have.

 

Some aircraft like the PMDG 737 has an option to over ride the navdata in the FMC with the FSX localiser. If you fly it and set the course set in the FMC you will notice it change by a degree or two on landing. Most aircraft do not have this option, the Majestic being one of them.

 

Now with regards to offset localizers, these are to give you guidance to the runway, not for you to land on. They bring you down close to the runway until you are in visual range. It is then up to you to take the controls and land the plane on the runway.

 

Put it this way. You are walking to a building to go through a door, but it is foggy. Your friend is standing by the buildings window that is just over from the door, he is shining a laser pen light at you and you can see the beam. You follow the beam and when you get close you see the door. You know you have to go through the door, do you;

a. Turn slightly off and walk through the door,

b, Carry on walking straight, following the beam and walking into your friend.

 

The light helps but is not designed to guide you through the door, merely to get you close enough to see and use your own mind where to go. In and ideal world your friend would stand in the door and you could follow the light all the way as you would follow a LOC all the way on many airports, however that is not always possible, especially on airports in small locations or some that have oceans at the end of the runway.

 

Some airports two runways and one localizer at the end of one of them, then you fly to that localizer and step over the other runway to land.  Of course if you get to the decision height and do not see the runway then you go around.

 

In 

Craig,

 

Thanks for the information.

I was already aware of Herve's updates but if I recall it did not cover the entire globe (ILS NavAids e.g.)?

 

I use Herve Sors 2010 NavDec uppdate but not the Navaids and fixes (which their are "cautions" from Hervr on usage) etc.

The Navigraph Navdata for the aircraft I fly is good enough for me.

 

I am also, like yourself (I expect from your avitar)  rw pilot and enjoy learning more about navigation and approaches.

 

I enjoy and regularly fly approaches like ... ILS, LOC, LDA, offset LOCs, RNAV, INS NAV, LPV, Omega NAV etc. and use paper approach plates as a reference when available.

 

Now, do you happen to know the about this offset LOC we are talking about at CYTZ and how it is used?

Do you happen to have a plate for the procedure that uses it?

Toronto FIR charts, 29MAY2014

http://czyz.ca/charts

 

Good to know someone is using the charts I put up for the Virtual FIR! :)

 

Updated navaids, fixes, and magnetic variation, from Herve Sors.  Link:  http://www.aero.sors.fr/

About CYTZ; With it being such a small, privately owned/operated airport, with a limited number of aircraft movements permitted,  having a localizer for rw33 probably isn't economically viable. IMO.

 

  cheers, Jazz.

 

I'll definitely check that out, looks very interesting.

Michael,

 

"I'll definitely check that out, looks very interesting."

 

Let us know what you think and if it has coverage (e.g. ILS Navaids) for your airports and did it fix specific problems ... like in this AVSIM topic?

 

 

"Good to know someone is using the charts I put up for the Virtual FIR! :)"

 

Right. Now for the missing chart / procedure for the offset LOC at CYTZ?

I mentioned earlier I thought the offset LOC at CYTZ was a circle to land approach.
Turned out it is.

I found some info on an internet search .. it is an accident report I am sorry to say but the only factual information about the approach I could find so far.

It is a Localizer/DME-B Approach, which only has circling minimums of 760 feet and two miles.


This link has the information and a couple pictures of the approach and the LOC approach chart.

http://www.avweb.com/news/probablecause/probable_cause_43_into_the_water_196287-1.html

 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tuyphywbm228mf3/CYTZ-LOC-APPR.jpg