The thrill of Flying....

[jcomm 5,940]

Flying, on an airplane, piloting, was probably the first thing that I remember being a strong objective in my live, just like with with most of you here at the AVSIM forums.

 

I was lucky to get my PPL at the age of 16 - gliders - and still keep it current, although I seldom fly these days.

 

Flight simulation, just like with everyone around here, was a passion too. It allowed me to get to experience, the closer I could to RL, flying many aircraft types I could never fly as a pilot. Unfortunately, I was always very demanding about it, and there were always minimal checks a flight simulator had to fulfill to stay longer than a few days on my disk. 

 

Some simulators stayed for longer, just 3 lasted more than any other, and I guess will stay while they're operational on my rig(s) and I have the capacity and will to use them.

 

Strangely, I was forced to diverge from the civil flight sims in two of them, because I simply couldn't find a comparable quality, detail, and sensation of being there / immersion the way these two combat flightsims give / recreate. I am talking about DCS World, specially with it's two helicopters uh-1h and mi-8 ( I never liked the ka50 that much, because it's too complex... ) and the ww2 birds. I also like the other models, but I seldom fly them...

 

DCS offers a unique quality in terms of flight dynamics, an attention to detail and rw data ( flight dynamics, engine perfromance, etc...) like no other sim I use, including the other I will probably keep ferever :-) IL2 - "Battle of Stalingrad". This second tittle, again a Combat flight simulator, recreates an epoch in the history of our World with unique accuracy, and also has superb flight models, but also superb engine, weapon, damage models and astounding graphics ( even being "still" dx9 and 32 bit, it put's aside any civil sim you can name, IMO... )

 

The third sim is Aerowinx PSX. I own PS1, and PSX was the natural successor. Yes it's expensive, but no there is simply no substitute to it when it comes to modeling ALL of the systems in a b744, all variants less the -800 family included. Precise system modeling, flight dynamics, unique weather modelling too.

 

So, truly and after many years of flight simulation, with a very sinuous trip during the last 2 yrs, I believe I have reached the apex of my flight simulation "career" :-)

 

I strongly recommend each of this sims to any simmer looking to experience the "true" thrill of flying powerful / beautiful aircraft. They're unique, each of them, in what they do for flight simulation.

 

Ah! There's a 4th one, which I also own but haven't yet had the time to invest in - Rise of Flight! It certainly doesn't stand behind the other three in recreating the thrill of flying those glorious ww1 machines!

[Humpty 751]

Ah I love the KA50 looks freaking awesome. I had the Black Shark but don't fly it anymore so I have given it away. DCS world yes looks good. But no more combat sims for me.

 

 

Hmmm why no XPX ?   

[jcomm 5,940]

 

Hmmm why no XPX ?   

 

I somehow lost the interest in it... Many loose ends IMO... I can use it, as well as FSX, for the external visuals with Aerowinx PSX.

[Humpty 751]

Hmm ya it has its loose ends. So do all.

 

"for the external visuals with Aerowinx PSX."   what is this ?

[jcomm 5,940]

Aerowinx PSX + X-Plane 10 for out-of-windshield visuals...

 

although I am suing PSX alone now, most of the time. Compared to it's predecessor, the out-of-windshield views are much better and more than sufficient, IMO, for the purpose of flying a B744. Using a single PC and monitor also makes things a bit more difficult when you have to set XP10 or FSX in a 2nd window, and there is always some stuttering here and there, at least on my rig... I'd say the benefit are mostly, let's put it that way... voyeuristic :-)

 

FSX and P3D can also be used with another "bridge" called VisualPSX designed by the author of a similar one that existed for PS1.

 

But, when I am up for the thrill of stunt flying, aerobatics, or even a furball with other ww2 birds, it's DCS World or IL2 BOS that I start :-)

 

Most of the time I use DCS World's p51d, t51d, fw190d9 and soon the Bf109k4 only to fly some circuits, do some formation flight online at a public server, or admire the reaction of the flight model to the limit situations that FSX or XP10 would never care to deal with properly, no matter how superior the add-ons you choose.

 

IL2 BOS also provides extraordinary flight dynamics, even better graphics ( superb! ), and the additional models are cheaper ( €49 vs €19 ). It will grow with additional maps and aircraft, so in the future users will not be limited the cold Winter scenery of Stalingrad and areas around it...

 

Helicopters are another "dream" for me. I would love to be able to fly them professionally, but the closest I got to it were a couple of flights, one in an H300 and another in an R44. I use DCS UH-1H and Mi-8, although I also own the ka-50, but that one is to sophisticated and uses modern air war systems too complex for me to deal with...

 

Finally, I really never understood why there can't be a civil flight simulation platform with the quality of the physics modeling provided by this Combat flightsims? Of course when we try to suggest civil aircraft as add-ons for instance for DCS World, we get negative opinions from the user community, and they're right - DCS IS a combat flight simulation platform... But it would be great to, one day, be able to get to the same level, with a mix of superb flight and systems modeling, world modeling, and all at incredible smoothness.

[Humpty 751]

Ah so you fly the 747 nice,  there is a fantastic bird for aerobatics for XPX the Sbach 300 which I guess you would know.

[jcomm 5,940]

Ah so you fly the 747 nice,  there is a fantastic bird for aerobatics for XPX the Sbach 300 which I guess you would know.

 

Ah! Yes, the Sbach 300 IMO one of the most advanced prop models ever designed for X-Plane!  A true must-have, using a very ingenious application of puffers !

The author might well try to use the new datarefs that Austin created to allow to freely introduce and manage moments around the main three axis ...

[Dillon 2,197]

Flying, on an airplane, piloting, was probably the first thing that I remember being a strong objective in my live, just like with with most of you here at the AVSIM forums.

 

I was lucky to get my PPL at the age of 16 - gliders - and still keep it current, although I seldom fly these days.

 

Flight simulation, just like with everyone around here, was a passion too. It allowed me to get to experience, the closer I could to RL, flying many aircraft types I could never fly as a pilot. Unfortunately, I was always very demanding about it, and there were always minimal checks a flight simulator had to fulfill to stay longer than a few days on my disk. 

 

 

 

I was with you until you mentioned PSX.  

 

http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?282170-This-was-my-PSX-years-ago-when-NWA-was-around

 

 

After playing with the real simulator for a number of years I could never go back to 2D which I fully abandoned back in 2005.  PMDG hit the nail on the head with their rendition outside of the delay when physically turning the aircraft in flight.  There's a delay in aircraft response that you have to account for that first took me off guard.  No simulated airliner we have models this.  Surprisingly enough FLIGHT's C-46 was the only virtual aircraft that I found modeled this.  FLIGHT had a fantastic engine which would have made a great FS11.  A high end 744 in that platform would have been amazing in terms of what could have been done with simulating it's flight dynamics.  Sadly it wasn't so.  PSX by far doesn't cut it for me especially being used on top of XP or FSX (what's the point) especially when great VC renditions are available.  The cockpit environment/flight dynamics are very important in the real thing.   Just like with any flight training your head is out the cockpit in a heavy as well looking around especially below 10,000ft.  Your scanning for visual traffic not just staring at your instruments.  Being able to look up and turn on your lights, look down and adjust your FMC is very much what the experience is all about in a heavy.  If anyone has had time in a real Level-D simulator or sat in a real airliner cockpit knows what I'm talking about.  The next best thing to being there is the VC hands down.  So in 2014 a 744 simulation castrated without a cockpit just pop-up windows is far from what I found in the real thing.  Unless one had a multi-monitor setup for $400 you get a third of the overall experience.

 

Just my two cents as always to each their own... 

[FLEX1978 373]

Dillon, I think you are missing the point.  PSX is designed to be a professional & affordable CBT, PMDG aircraft  are  designed to be an authentic game for  people that want to pretend to be airline pilots.   

[Dillon 2,197]

Dillon, I think you are missing the point.  PSX is designed to be a professional & affordable CBT, PMDG aircraft  are  designed to be an authentic game for  people that want to pretend to be airline pilots.   

 

 

Why does 'professional & affordable CBT' have to always equate to 2D products for some?  Did you miss I've used the real Level-D simulator on many occasions?  In this day and age static panels is less authentic than a full virtual environment plain and simple.  Why now does the mire mention of a virtual cockpit equate to entertainment with some?  It's not legitimate unless it's 2D...  :blink:  That's a bit crazy especially considering those us that fly in the real world and have used the full motion Level-D simulators tell you otherwise.

 

No one is knocking PSX's effort but it would be nice if they offered the full package outside of systems (external visual model, full functioning virtual cockpit, and choose a platform to run it on).  That would be worth $400.  Just my opinion I know but today we have the means to bring the full solution to the market especially if one is using it in XP/FSX/P3Dv2 anyway.  I guess if I could get away with selling a product offering only a panel for $400 I would too (then again I'd feel guilty).  For years our developers have offered 2D/VC options for their products.  You always have that segment that wants 2D for the setup they have at home but to charge $400 for a panel no matter how detailed it is is...   Maybe I'd feel differently if I hadn't used the real 744 simulator.

[FLEX1978 373]

Why does 'professional & affordable CBT' have to equate to a 2D product?  

 

Because that is the law...  And what does training on a CBT have to do with a  full motion sim.?  CAE simulators are primarily used for CRM & cockpit familiarity.  Flight crew use class room CBT's before they get anywhere near a full motion sim. 

[Dillon 2,197]

Because that is the law...  And what does training on a CBT have to do with a  full motion sim.?  CAE simulators are primarily used for CRM & cockpit familiarity.  Flight crew use class room CBT's before they get anywhere near a full motion sim. 

 

 

I get it on that aspect.  If your doing classroom training this makes since but the premise of the original post was entertainment.  PSX was mentioned along side Rise of Flight, IL2, and DCS (Hense the title of the thread, 'The Thrill of Flying', not 'The Thrill of Classroom Training').

[jcomm 5,940]

I guess Hardy Heinlin didn't invest on a 3d model because users with more sophisticated wants will build their own cockpits / mockups, as close as their space and budget allows. Mathew Sheills example is the high level extreme :-)

 

For me PSX compares pretty much with what is available for PC-based Airbus trainning with CAEs Simfinity 2D trainers, and you get additional out-of-windshield views and detailled World weather modeling.

 

There is yet another big advantage of using PSX - it's smooth even on a laptop, and it's piece of cake to use it for MCC  training with any mates around the planet, plug various computers on a network to deal with the display of different panels, use multiple monitors, etc... Piece of cake, smooth, efficient, and cross-pltaform because it's a JAVA application!

 

But I understand Dilon's PoV, and indeed only very recently could I adapt to 3d cockpits, before leaving FSX and X-plane, because a friend offered me TIR5. Whow!!! What a  difference it made. Unfortunately I didn't find it that good in FSX, but it is certainly mandatory for DCS and IL2, and I am sure it would also have made a difference when I was using that GREAT MS FLIGHT!

 

OTOH, products like PMDG's 777, the upcoming FSLabs A3XX, Majestic Q400 really raise the bar in terms of what can be done with MSFS. Same applies to high level GA aircraft models available for FSX/ P3D. The cost-benefit for the casual simmer, just like me, is certainly very good. The level of detail of these products is very high, and that's the reason why we see, at PMDG and Majestic forums real pilot's of the types posting regularly and using those products at home, surely because they see interest in that and take advantage from it.

[Jimmy RFR 406]

Each to their own, and some of you have far more experience than some of us.  I own DCS, purchased it for the highly praised helicopter simulations, and found I really didn't care for it.  The lack of motion that you feel by sitting in the real thing is not made up for in an exacting physics simulation, in my opinion, and I think that helicopters are one of those things that really require more than just the limited visual cues offered by our monitors.

 

My thrill of (simulated) flying is often more gained from getting to feel like I'm doing something that I could never do in real life.  As much as I want the aircraft to be as accurate to the real thing as possible, I'm willing to make sacrifices to be able to fly, say, a certain type of aircraft, to the point where the availability of the aircraft I want to fly dictates the sim platform I use.

 

But hey, if we all liked the same thing, life would get pretty boring. ^_^