Yes and they also had DX9 AA settings which were responsible for the AA they saw in DX9. Go away "Dude" and come back with a setup that's repeatable here.

You're fighting the whole interweb here

Really? I've only had a couple of mails confirming no changes observed. Not really that many interested I would think, just you and Bert.

 

Yes and they also had DX9 AA settings which were responsible for the AA they saw in DX9. Go away "Dude" and come back with a setup that's repeatable here.

 

 

Really? I've only had a couple of mails confirming no changes observed. Not really that many interested I would think, just you and Bert.

 

 

First off, sorry about the dude thing, didn't mean to offend you or anything.

 

Then again, it's not just Bert and I, in this thread alone you got: Charles Paluda (flyinion), Rod (TheFamilyMan), arnobg, Ray Hughes  & Mad Dog

 

Do we agree SGSS is not a transparency mode?

 

There really isn't much else I can do as far as providing a repeatable scenario. It's as simple as setting up Inspector as the screenshot I posted earlier today.

You might want to try a fresh FSX install or something. Maybe a different driver, I don't know

I said earlier that SG is just a technique, not allied with any particular graphics platform. And that's maybe why it could be assumed it works in FSX DX9. The Transparency settings work with the extra transparent information in DX10 and DX11, not used in DX9 models for FSX.

I said earlier that SG is just a technique, not allied with any particular graphics platform. And that's maybe why it could be assumed it works in FSX DX9. The Transparency settings work with the extra transparent information in DX10 and DX11, not used in DX9 models for FSX.

 

Ok, I think we're getting somewhere. 

 

SGSS is not a transparency mode, Inspector is just a 3rd party tool that includes Nvidia's originaly bugged TRSSAA:

 

The story behind SGSSAA:

Nvidia implemented TRSSAA as an alpha test that supersampled pixels that passed. A bug was present in one of the drivers they released for the new fermi cards that caused the alpha test to always pass and therefore apply SGSSAA to all pixels. They fixed the bug in the next release but many users said that they liked the look of fullscene SGSSAA and complained about its removal.  This caused nvidia to release a tool that allowed the bug to be re-enabled.  Despite the fact that this tool was made by nvidia they do not officially support it, it comes with a nice fat "use at your own risk" warning.  The new fermi cards + new drivers made nhancer no longer compatible (since it never got updated for the 200 series drivers) and since the developer of nhancer has dropped off the face of the planet we can expect it to never be updated.  However in the meantime another developer made a better app that did the same thing, nvidia inspector. He included the SGSSAA hack in it.

 

Therefore SGSSAA technically comes in two forms, FSSGSSAA (fullscene sparse gride supersampling anti-aliasing, which is SGSSAA applied to the entire scene) or TRSGSSAA (tranparency sparse grid supersampling anti-aliasing, which is SGSSAA applied only to transparent textures).

As far as nvidia inspector and nvcp (nvidia control panel) are concerned they are listed under the following names:

FSSGSSAA is just called SGSSAA

TRSGSSAA is just called TRSSAA or "Transparency Supersampling"

 

Technically both of them are SGSSAA, but only the fullscene implementation is called SGSSAA.

 

The Inspector dev just happened to include it under Transparency Antialiasing, BUT IT APPLIES TO THE FULL SCENE (not the entire grid but still, full scene, not just alpha test passed pixels)

 

http://naturalviolence.webs.com/sgssaa.htm

Yes - and with the NI settings it overcomes a scaling situation in DX10 and DX11, where some planes lose AA when zoomed out a bit since they are pre rendered in the scene.

 

 We are looking like brothers now man.    

Yes - and with the NI settings it overcomes a scaling situation in DX10 and DX11, where some planes lose AA when zoomed out a bit since they are pre rendered in the scene.

 

 We are looking like brothers now man.    

 

Can you fill me in on the tech details here please? I never noticed any kind of AA loss when zooming out in DX9 + SGSS

It's all in that link, there's no zooming problems between planes in DX9, just DX10 and DX11.

 

>>"and with the NI settings it overcomes a scaling situation in DX10 and DX11"

 

...it's beginning to sink in now? If only you read my link on NI it's explained reasonably well I thought. :smile:

It's all in that link, there's no zooming problems between planes in DX9, just DX10 and DX11.

 

>>"and with the NI settings it overcomes a scaling situation in DX10 and DX11"

 

...it's beginning to sink in now? If only you read my link on NI it's explained reasonably well I thought. :smile:

 

Just so we're clear, you are still talking DX10 & DX11, assuming SGSS doesn't work in DX9?

Please see the link. We are talking about the two "Transparency" values in the AA settings of NI.

 

Whereby MSAA, SSAA, and SGSSAA, can be set. SGSSAA produces a softer result than SSAA.

 

Some planes in DX10 and DX11 exhibit poor AA with SSAA, and so we can use SGSSAA. In DX9 there's no scaling problems because of the way the backgrounds of the sub images are renderd on to each other pre rendered in the scene.

I've read through all of this if that's what you mean.

 

When you say "backgrounds of the sub images " you mean what's behind transparent textures?

No. You must have seen, momentarily, graphics items kind of stored in their own squares? The background is the pixels of that square not forming part of the item in the image.

 

 

SGSSAA produces a softer result than SSAA

 

Slightly softer yeah, because it works on a "sparse grid" not the entire grid, but it's still the full scene, not only alpha test pixels. 

I'm using a Carenado B1900D for testing because it's difficult to render, and looks bad without SG in DX10 and DX11. Whereas the stock planes are fine. The 1900 has a lot of fine detail which loses AA when zoomed out enough, in DX10 and DX11. Now I've got 1.5xDSR on top and it's the best I've seen it. Even better with higher magnitudes of DSR. The 1900 is nice because it installs into P3D, displays without issue in DX9 FSX, and with DX10 FSX, and DX11 P3D, we use SGSSAA in the Transparency setting.

I'm using a Carenado B1900D for testing because it's difficult to render, and looks bad without SG in DX10 and DX11. Whereas the stock planes are fine. The 1900 has a lot of fine detail which loses AA when zoomed out enough, in DX10 and DX11. Now I've got 1.5xDSR on top and it's the best I've seen it. Even better with higher magnitudes of DSR. The 1900 is nice because it installs into P3D, displays without issue in DX9 FSX, and with DX10 FSX, and DX11 P3D, we use SGSSAA in the Transparency setting.

 

But DRS is a different although similar animal. It's "pure" SSAA or more accurately downsampling with a 13 tap Gaussian filter.

Question is, SGSS works in DX9, no question about that, and re: DRS how it performs compared to SGSS considering it adds the filter overhead

...I'm sure the few people questioning this transparency thing are the few that have not seen the problem in DX10 and DX11 that i'm discussing. Plenty round that have it's not new.

 

Whatever - changing the transparency setting in DX9 still does nothing in FSX. I'm waiting for a setup that demonstrates a change and it's not coming...

 

Just look at the downscaling on that baby, good enough?

 

 

That's actually not as good as the original since it's a 75% .jpg.