...I'm sure the few people questioning this transparency thing are the few that have not seen the problem in DX10 and DX11 that i'm discussing. Plenty round that have it's not new.

 

Whatever - changing the transparency setting in DX9 still does nothing in FSX. I'm waiting for a setup that demonstrates a change and it's not coming...

 

Since we're obviously not going to agree on the simple fact that SGSSAA has nothing to do with transparency and hence it works in DX9 just fine (some day you'll do a reinstall or something and see it in action right there in front of you) what if we move on to DSR? I can't test that here and I'd be really interested in some performance comparison between DSR and SGSS in clouds 

 

 

Whatever - changing the transparency setting in DX9 still does nothing in FSX

 

Just out of curiosity, can you post a screenshot, full resolution with no transparency AA and then 4xSGSS in DX9 please? 

 

 

Since we're obviously not going to agree on the simple fact that SGSSAA has nothing to do with transparency and hence it works in DX9 just fine (some day you'll do a reinstall or something and see it in action right there in front of you) what if we move on to DSR? I can't test that here and I'd be really interested in some performance comparison between DSR and SGSS in clouds 

 

 

 

 

Just out of curiosity, can you post a screenshot, full resolution with no transparency AA and then 4xSGSS in DX9 please?

Can't you? How would you know if I posted two of the same shots? LOL I could be making this all up to amuse myself, like you are.

 

What I want to see is a setup that does what you say and you cannot deliver it.

Can't you? How would you know if I posted two of the same shots? LOL I could be making this all up to amuse myself, like you are.

 

What I want to see is a setup that does what you say and you cannot deliver it.

I was not challenging you Steve, just asking. I wish I could post screenshots but I don't own an Nvidia card as already mentioned.

If someone else did, could you tell the difference between DX10 & DX9 somehow? maybe with the Fraps FPS counter without the black background square as displayed in DX9?

If someone could come up with it they would have by now. I'll bet several other people around this afternoon tried to get any changes, if they did they would have posted. I have to be careful, folk tend to make more than one setting at a time or have some other thing different. But That stuff in the link is repeatable. I don't want you to think i'm trying to say you don't know your stuff or anything. All I did was make a document for my chums, and so far they have no complaints with it.

 

 

I was not challenging you Steve, just asking

Well I took several shots this afternoon in FSX DX9 setting various "Transparency" values and "Antialiasing - Mode" settings etc. and can see no changes zoomed up big. Only the "Antialiasing - Setting" setting made a difference.

If someone could come up with it they would have by now. I'll bet several other people around this afternoon tried to get any changes, if they did they would have posted. I have to be careful, folk tend to make more than one setting at a time or have some other thing different. But That stuff in the link is repeatable. I don't want you to think i'm trying to say you don't know your stuff or anything. All I did was make a document for my chums, and so far they have no complaints with it.

 

 

 

Well I took several shots this afternoon in FSX DX9 setting various "Transparency" values and "Antialiasing - Mode" settings etc. and can see no changes zoomed up big. Only the "Antialiasing - Setting" setting made a difference.

 

 

Well, tell that to all the users that turn on SGSS in DX9 and DX10 both to get rid of shimmering scenery and VC's.  I've done this on both myself.  If it comes down to it I'll swap out my DX10 .cfg for my dx9 one and take some screenshots.  The QualityWings Avro is an excellent example though to test on in the VC.  Without SGSS the grid of warning lights on the main cockpit panel is a shimmery mess.  

OK maybe we are observing this the same in FSX DX9?

 

Setting these:

Antialiasing - Setting = "4x4 [4x4 Supersampling (D3D only)]"

Antialiasing - Transparency Supersampling = "Off / Multisampling"

 

and these:

Antialiasing - Setting = "4x4 [4x4 Supersampling (D3D only)]"

Antialiasing - Transparency Supersampling = "4x Sparse Grid Supersampling"

 

produced identical screenshots

 

Adding Sparse Grid Supersampling did nothing.

 

Why? Because it's just Supersampling, the screenshots were the same.

 

 

However, I can force Multisampling settings to Supersample by setting the Sparse Grid value, instead of selecting Supersampling (e.g 4x4 Supersampling). That just happens to be forcing the bit on to become Supersampling. The screenshot was the same as the other two, because SG does nothing in these circumstances.

 

..so with that theory in mind and looking at Bert's comment

 

I agree.. 8xs and 2xsgss in dx9.

We find screenshots of 2xsgss on or off did absolutely nothing because we have supersampling set already, 8xs.

 

 

However if I had instead set multisampling, and then added the 2xsgss, we get the same result as before, because it forced Supersampling to on. The result was the same as 8xs on it's own. sgss does nothing.

 

I think the situation is becoming clearer.

 

I shall post some shots of the poor AA we can experience in DX10 with certain VCs later, so we can see SGSS in action.

Setting these:

Antialiasing - Setting = "4x4 [4x4 Supersampling (D3D only)]"

Antialiasing - Transparency Supersampling = "Off / Multisampling"

 

and these:

Antialiasing - Setting = "4x4 [4x4 Supersampling (D3D only)]"

Antialiasing - Transparency Supersampling = "4x Sparse Grid Supersampling"

 

produced identical screenshots

 

Ok, set that to 8xS please Steve. You need to feed SGSS 4x multisamples for it to work (theoretically you need 2x multisamples for 2xSGSS, 4xMSAA for 4xSGSS and so on). It's eather plain 4x MSAA or some combined mode that includes 4xMSAA like 8xS 

You need to feed SGSS multisamples

I was quite hopeful and excited with this theory but disappointed in the end, making the MS into SS. I get the same results as before except with "32xS [Combined: 2x2 SS + 8x MS]" and any "Sparse Grid Supersampling" the 8x MS becomes 8x SS. But the quality of the shot actually decreases and becomes harsher with the addition of any SGSS mode in this situation and zoomed right in shimmers slightly because of a pattern origin mismatch or something. It's so frustrating. 32xS [Combined: 2x2 SS + 8x MS] was better on it's own. Back to the drawing board.

Yes and they also had DX9 AA settings which were responsible for the AA they saw in DX9. Go away "Dude" and come back with a setup that's repeatable here.

Really? I've only had a couple of mails confirming no changes observed. Not really that many interested I would think, just you and Bert.

 

.. and Bert has not changed his mind.

 

On my gtx770, adding 2xsgss helps with removing shimmering.

 

Nothing scientific, just my number one eyeball..

.. and Bert has not changed his mind.

 

On my gtx770, adding 2xsgss helps with removing shimmering.

 

Nothing scientific, just my number one eyeball..

 

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Just because it doesn't improve screenshots does NOT MEAN IT'S NOT DOING ANYTHING.  It fixes shimmering in BOTH DX9 and DX10 while actually using the sim vs. mashing the screenshot key.

(edited), nevermind

i tried it again and it in fact helped with water shimmering as well as aircraft edges.

 

 

Note I am in dx9

 

I can also admit I have no idea what you guys are even saying when it comes to technical details, but I do know if I make changes in inspector by adding/removing 2XSGSS I can tell a difference right away just looking at my pmdg NGX. Especially if I zoom in/out.

 

While I am not upset this thread took a complete turn because it is providing some good technical details and arguments, it still hasn't completely resolved my original post/question. I am not happy with my results after trying endless setting configurations so I am considering:

 

A. Buying a GTX970/780 (which would be better?)

 

B. Switching to dx10 if all the work and more research would be worth it? Would my presentation/performance improve or would it be pointless?

Tut! Are you all still having trouble with this? I thought I'd explained it rather well.

We know that there's no change to 8xs by adding sgss because it only sets the super flag so nothing happens as its already set. And there's absolutely no difference to the shot in this case no matter how far zoomed.

However. if we use the combined versions e.g. "32xS [Combined: 2x2 SS + 8x MS]" and try to combine sgss to that all it does is set the super flag on 8xMS, and that's just wrong.

We find that "32xS [Combined: 2x2 SS + 8x SS]" is worse than "32xS [Combined: 2x2 SS + 8x MS]" and if that was any good it would be in the dropdown list.

 

I went through every version of combined + sgss and zooming in and allowing the VC to rock in the wind shows shimmering where the natural value from the drop down on it's own did not.

So instead of adding sgss to a DX9 setting, we merely have to use instead a higher value from the drop down.

Make sure the high quality filtering and 16x aniso-mode is used too for best anti shimmering.

 

I'll be back to demonstrate SGSSAA in DX10 later.
 

 

 

this thread took a complete turn

 

Sorry about that, let's get the focus back to your issues then. What exactly is it that you still don't like?

For the OP:

Runway markings on standard FSX rendered runways, versus some add-on airports' runways, always have jagged edges and I've yet to find anything that solves this (perhaps the latest nvidia driver's DSR stuff will solve this).  Blurry ground textures from high altitude external views are also problematic.  Consider that the higher up you are, the visibility range is much greater but the LOD radius is fixed and does not vary with your altitude.  As mentioned a larger LOD radius will be help but at the expense of absolutely certain OOM shutdowns. Using DX10 preview will get you a little relief here, though at the cost of configuring for DX10, which should include using the repaired DX10 shaders as a minimum.

 

As for SteveW:

I find your pontificating on the irrelavancy of SSGS for FSX in DX9 most annoying and misleading.  I can only think that there is something quite unique about your setup such that it's only you that can't detect its effect, for the effectiveness of DX9 SSGS in FSX has been well known for years, such that two of the most well respected and no-nonsense FSX gurus have even posted articles about its effectiveness and the costs of its use.  Check out the respective links to their articles: http://#####.wordpress.com/fsxp3d-gpu-comparison-aka-gtx-titan-for-fsx-test/ and NickN.  Nick's guide mentions using SSGS about half way in.

 

Edit:  Crud, forgot that Word Not Allowed is considered an enemy of the people here at avsim.