Hi All-Rarely post around here, but this idea has been bugging me for a while. Does anyone see the day when MSFS will be a MMO? I realize that there is VATSIM and IVAO already, but due to memberships and other factors, they can sometimes be a pain. Wonder if MS will treat future FS titles like other recent game console products? Does anyone remember Sky Routes? They used to have a website advertizing FS MMO, but their website is now gone. Would anyone else like to see this?Mike

What's an MMO?Bryan

MMO=Massively Multiplayer Online Game

I don't know if it is such a good idea, given that it is a simulator, not a freeforall arcade game. Remember that we are trying to simulate aviation here, one of the stricktest bureaucracies in existence. Considering the various skill levels involved (and total lack of skill whatsoever for a very large fraction of the user base) it would totally ruin the experience for me, as a realism oriented simmer, to share the skies with arcade types and the usual jerks that ruin all online games.-

Basic problem for FS as an online game -How do you `win`?:-waveAllcott

Sounds a bit kaotic; if we're all as useless as oyvind writes then it would be like the Battle of Britain played out with A380's, 747's and DC-3's and with all the AI stuff having a laugh as well there would be lots of interesting action in the crowded skies.

Yep, I agree with that...Just imagine that you are trying to fly realistically, coming in to land at KJFK, when a 1st time user, with no training (or maybe someone who thinks that's just a funny thing to do...), starts taking off in the wrong direction, heading to your plane!!Not pleasent, at least for me..I prefer the current system. Every user can fly offline and mess with AI, and then, when they are commited to a realistic simulation, start using VATSIM or IVAO.

Well, guess you all have good points. Funny, I still wish for that perfect system where thousands of "good" Avsim simmers could crowd the skies together. In fact, the only reason FS ever gets boring for me, is because it can be so predicable and dry. Of course, I realize that it is a simulation and a good one at that, but compared to other "entertainment" software, it's not very interactive or exciting. Although, maybe its because I fly 80-100 hours a month in real life anyway. :)Mike

>How do you `win`?:-waveWell, how do you "win" a real MMO game like World of Warcraft? I've been playing it since the day it came out in November of last year and I'm still nowhere close to what you could call winning lol! MMO's are more about the community and making friends online than it is about "winning" or "beating" the game the way that you would approach a standard video game. I really kinda think VATSIM already is an MMO in a sense. If FS were to be made more like a standard MMO, it would have to center around the whole career aspect of professional flying, and the "quests" in the game would be specific flights you'd have to do, ie (go pick up such and such important person and fly them somewhere in bad weather with an engine failure on short final or something hehe...

Yep, I remember Sky-routes and questioning their premise that I really didn't think they were giving away a NEW Cessna 172. :-lol :-lolYou mean they are no longer around after all those press releases to the different sites and trying to charge $8.50 a month. Go Figure. :-)So I guess they never had a 172 to give away did they?I didn't think so.As for Multiplayer, there are plenty of opportunities, hosts, etc to fly with a whole bunch of people.Grab My FREEWARE Voice recognition Profiles here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a][a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=60740]FSD Avanti Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

>Yep, I agree with that...>Just imagine that you are trying to fly realistically, coming>in to land at KJFK, when a 1st time user, with no training (or>maybe someone who thinks that's just a funny thing to do...),>starts taking off in the wrong direction, heading to your>plane!!I agree, there are some big potential issues. But I think it is possible to get around them.For example, maybe when you start out, you can only fly to a few small GA airports. Then as you complete different levels of training and accure more hours in your log book you can start flying into the larger airports and move up to larger aircraft. By the time you completed the training, you wouldn't want to hurt your reputation by screwing around at an airport like JFK.There are all kinds of fun things that could be possible with something like this. For example, it would be kind of like a VA, but would be in real time, instead of everyone flying on their own and reporting back what they did, you'd actually see everyone else in the MMO, could hang out in the hangar at your home base and chat with everyone. Once you get to a certain experience level, you get to pick an airline to join. Then when you log on, you are given a choice of available flights based on the airline you work for, the airline's schedule, and your experience level. This would result in realistic air traffic at airports, without AI planes. Or maybe the different airlines compete for passengers and flights at airports, similar to the real word.I think MS would know that if they just created a server where 5,000 people could log on and do whatever they wanted, it would be chaos.Hard to say, I could see it being fun if it was done right, or a complete disaster if not done right.Matt

The problem with this idea, as I see it, is that you just destroyed 99% of the flight simulator experience...The whole point of FS is that it allows people to do things in the sim that they will never be able to do in real life. Yes, there are some people - but very few - who only ever fly aircraft they can fly in real life and only start flights from where they last landed their aircraft. The vast majority of people pick an aircraft suitable for where they want to fly from and to. They can pick a Tornado, a B747-400, a C-5 Galaxy or a microlight, it doesn't matter.By limiting this to only being able to fly to small GA fields in a light piston single, are you not taking away that entire functionality? What happens if the user doesn't want to join an airline? Are they not allowed to fly to the larger airports?What you are proposing might work as an option or add-on for people that want to use FS in that way, but if that was all that was available, you would be severely limiting Flightsim's expansion and alienating a large amount of its current userbase.The other problem, as one member of our VA was complaining about not too long ago, is that if you offer a pay-to-use service like an MMO, it has to be supported constantly. That means every ATC position on the planet manned (should that be personned? ;-)) 24 hours a day, seven days a week. It's impractical to do without ending up with something that costs as much as real world aviation does! :-(Ian P.

>The problem with this idea, as I see it, is that you just>destroyed 99% of the flight simulator experience...>By limiting this to only being able to fly to small GA fields>in a light piston single, are you not taking away that entire>functionality? What happens if the user doesn't want to join>an airline? Are they not allowed to fly to the larger>airports?I was just throwing some ideas out there. There could be different "worlds" available. One world for following a "career" that has lots of rules and another "world" for just messing around with no rules. Don't know....like I said, it could be a disaster. But I think the only way it could work is to have some structure that follows reality. After all, isn't that the whole point of a VA? YOu can't just joint a VA and start right off in their 747.Be interesting to see if MS tries something like that. With success of Sims, Everquest, etc. I'm sure they've given it some thought. And FS multiplayer is long overdue for an overhaul.I'm sure the first time WIll Wright brought up the idea of The Sims online, people thought he was nuts :)>The other problem, as one member of our VA was complaining>about not too long ago, is that if you offer a pay-to-use>service like an MMO, it has to be supported constantly. That>means every ATC position on the planet manned (should that be>personned? ;-)) 24 hours a day, seven days a week. It's>impractical to do without ending up with something that costs>as much as real world aviation does! :-(Not if MS improves the ATC system enough so that live controllers aren't needed. It's all just speculation, but intersting possibilities. Matt