I hate to correct you guys, but FSGenesis sells mesh (elevation data). They also market the American Data roads/rails/streams package, which is excellent, but is not covered under their site membership - you need to buy that separately. Since the original question was related to coasts and such, I just wanted to provide accurate info.Best,sg

Thanks everyone for all the recommendations. I've been to fsgenesis and looked at some of the other packages.Can one simply keep "adding to" scenery in fs9. Does the scenery of one install overwrite what is already there?I purchased the US Roads program but have not noticed a great deal of difference as yet, but then, I have been simming very long this time around.Are framerates affected greatly with additional scenery packages?

USARoads should produce a tremendous difference in your sim. Going from few inaccurately placed roads to every road placed by gps in exactly its real world position should look like night and day. Now, if you fly in cities, its hard to see the new roads over the textures, but out in the country, its dramatic. Might want to be sure you've run the config util and everything is configured correctly.To answer the other questions - "yes" - with qualifications:1.) Some scenery, such as my FREEflow stuff, requires the user to inactivate the default scenery because parts of it cannot be "excluded" using conventional means. Other scenery (such as localized airport enhancements and such) might be able to inactivate everything it has to on its own, and will just layer right over the other scenery. 2.) Scenery in the same area might conflict with other scenery in the same area...you can't install two airport addons and expect everything to mesh as the authors intended.3.) There are many different kinds of scenery enhancement- FSGenesis markets mesh which alters the elevation data making for much more accurate mountainscapes, you can get replacement textures for everything from clouds to ground to water, you can get landclass scenery which is a very coarse representation of the land types in a region using tiles, you can get details scenery packages which lie on top of the land class providing even greater detail, you can install roads, new water features such as coastlines, lakes and river, you can get new contrail and wave and other effects, you can add the planets to the night sky in their real-world positions...the detail can be overwhelming.4.) After you install all of these, you will see an effect on frame rates. Individually, many have no negative (maybe even a slight positive) effect, but in combination, you will start to affect the performance of the sim - but the price of admission to what is becoming a very real sim is not that high in terms of FPS...worth it, that's for sure!5.) Keep asking questions!

Thanks Scott... I have more questions about FS in general than one could shake a stick at... but I really need to be flying.Your explanations about the different kinds of scenery enhancement has helped a great deal. I was confused with the language "spoken" by many here (not ethnic language but "pilot speak"). I had no idea that "mesh ", "textures", "landclass", etc., were not all various parts of one package.You have cleared up a lot of confusion.I'm an "old" real world pilot and haven't had enough "fun" stuff in FS9 while trying to get my system set up properly before beginning the truly enjoyable part. I enjoy VFR flying purely for the fun part and would love to see landscape projects that bring the same quality to flight simulation as some of the high quality aircraft publishers are releasing.I'll look closely at your Florida project 'cause that's where I do a lot of IFR ("I" "F"ollow "R"oads, "R"ivers and "R"ailroads).Many thanks! ;-)

Hello Scott, If I understood you correctly, just installing a "mesh" scenery such as the freeware here on Avsim (the 38m mesh for instance) is not enough for a realistic representation of the landscape, just the relief data.Assuming some of us are "new" to this FS scenery business, we really get all confused with all these different options, I'd like to ask you :-What would one have to do to have a nice accurate represenation of the landscape ? The mesh, than the landclass, then the photorealistic sceneries on top of that ? (is there a photorealistic scenery to go along with the Mesh such as the Rockies and the West Coast ?)I don't care too much about detailed airport objects, so I don't bother installing detailed buildings and stuff like that, I think they'll be more of a FPS hog. But the landscape around the countryside, mountains (especially out here in the west) cities and all that is what I'd like to see improved. Can you give us a checklist of what to do, assuming all we have is the standard MS FS9 ?Does something like the following make sense ?1-Deactivate the standard scenery to avoid conflicts (how do you do that, anyway ?)2-Add Landclass3-Add Mesh scenery4-Add Photorealistic scencery on top of it allMaybe there's a guide somewhere you can point me to.Cheers.

There must be a good, comprehensive guide book out there, but I don't know where to find it!Let me preface by saying that only in certain circumstances do you need to deactivate the default scenery - usually these improvements work with the default, or functionally replace it with no effort on the users part. That certain circumstance when you need to inactivate the default scenery is when you replace water features.So, in general your list is pretty much what you need, though each of those can be done independant of the others, thus there is no real checklist. Decide which area you think looks the worst and start there!1.) Landclass scenery, while coarse in resolution, does help a great deal in placing features such as forests, farmland, and cities in a very general way.2.) Mesh, as you've said, improves the relief of the terrain. It comes in different resolutions as well. In general, it's easy to find freely and commercially available 76m (that's one data point every 76m) mesh for the entire planet. I have no idea what the default mesh resolution is, but in terms of resolution and in accuracy, even the 76m packages are a great improvement. There's also a significant amount of 38m mesh available, including the entire continental United States, such as FSGenesis' free downloads in the AVSIM library. I do recommend visiting their website, the recent commercial updates really are excellent, and the products are cheap (especially purchased in bulk) and extend the areas available. There are also many 19.2m packages - currently this is the highest resolution mesh FS 9.1 can display (and this was improved by the patch, FS9 was 38m). FS8 could display 9.6m. That doesn't mean you can't install 9.6m mesh into FS9.1, it simple scales back the detail. There are several areas that FSGenesis has 9.6m data for, such as Hawaii, and the detail is amazing.One last word about mesh - you can install multiple meshes for the same place provided their of different resolutions - FS will display the highest resolution near the aircraft, and use the lower resolutions as a buffer, or for the distant terrain.3.) There are a large number of detailed scenery areas that enhance the scenery of regions by adding things such as accurate roads, or detailed airports...4.) As you mentioned there are several packages that add textures derived from photos...In general, these things will all cooperate, and are independant of one another.Finally, the most important addon: Knowledge.You must read the documentation that comes with your downloaded scenery to know what you are getting - some packages are very complete (Holger's Columbia River and other sceneries come to mind) and include mesh and class scenery with replacement roads and water. You really need to be careful that you know what you've installed in your sim, and that you know what you're installing won't conflict. Holger's documentation provides important information on when to and when not to use the mesh he provides.Keep asking questions! Best way to learn this stuff.So, in the end, do you want to know what I'd recommend for the *BEST* FS experience? I'll post my favorite addons in a little while...Best,sg

>(...............)>So, in the end, do you want to know what I'd recommend for the>*BEST* FS experience? I'll post my favorite addons in a>little while...>>Best,>sgYes, I do !Hey Scott, thanks a lot for this info. It's been really good help so far.I've installed the freeware 38m mesh for the US West Coast and wasn't too impressed so far. The thing seems to take forever to draw as you get near the mountains, for instance.I know I have to change my max-visibility back down to 20000 (it used to be there but FS9 always 'kicks-it back' to 96000.I'm also trying to find a landclass freeware (can't remember where I saw it) to see if it gets any better.Anyway, can't wait for your recommendation for the best experience.Cheers

The effect your seeing is probably related to "buffer" mesh, not so much draw distance, and you might get better result changing the radii of min and max dem in the FS9.cfg file, but that's an advanced maneuver - there are many posts dealing with optimal FS9.cfg settings.Recommending a list of best addons is difficult - many people would much rather have roads coast to coast than nice trees, you get the idea.I'll describe what I do with a fresh install of FS9; keep in mind I almost exclusively fly in the USA and south east Canada (the St. Lawrence River valley), so the kinds of files I describe might not be available outside this region, or look good elsewhere...First, I install mesh. I own a bunch of FSGenesis' products, but before I owned, I used the free versions - they are very good.Second, I install landclass - again, FSGenesis. Their free version is here: Third, I install roads - I own USARoads from Flight1. I prefer their roads textures over others. I used to use Joel Gill's freeware canada road system, but since I've been fortunate enough to be a beta tester for Ultimate Terrain Canada, I've been using that - it's fabulous for Canada land class, shores and roads. I also have FSG's American data roads, rails, and streams - I use it forthe rails and streams while keeps USAroads roads.Fourth, I install water replacement textures. Remember that water textures and reflection textures are different things. For the textures themselves, I've been using OceanFX. I find it's inland water to be the brownest, and it's tropical water to be the right vibrance. [link:library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004util&DLID=34456 |The front end by Johan de Vries] will install [link:library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=root&Name=&FileName=OCEANS%3FX.ZIP&Author=&DLID=&Sort=Name&ScanMode=1&Go=Change+View|Ed Truthan's water effects and textures] for you. AFTER installing textures, just to be sure you don't overwrite the reflections, install [link:portal.fsgenesis.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=UpDownload&file=index&req=viewdownloaddetails&lid=6&ttitle=Vater_(Vilk's_Water)]Vater - the best reflections out there for several subtle reasons including color and brightness. Fifth, I start installing region addons: All of holger's stuff, my freeflow, Peter ricciardiello's New york lakes.To me, this really makes the terrain look real. I have experimented in the past with land textures, found several I liked, but I haven't been making it a priority lately...That's about it for a good start.Love to hear others opinions - this is a community with some true experts!Best,sg

>>I'll describe what I do with a fresh install of FS9;>>Third, I install roads - I own USARoads from Flight1.I also have FSG's American data roads, rails, and streams - I use it for the rails and streams while keeps USAroads roads.>Love to hear others opinions - this is a community with some>true experts!Scott:Thanks for that comprehensive overlook at scenery add-ons. This is all new to me and the entire subject of "how to make FS9 scenery appeal to me" has been very confusing.It seems to me that your initial point concerning what you do from a "fresh install" is important. Most of what I have done is after the fact. For those who have multiple add-on aircraft from publishers that make re-installs a complicated process, "fresh installs" are not something one wishes to do regularly... but, perhaps are needful.I also own USARoads and at your suggestion I bought American Data. Installed it yesterday. After starting FS9 it crashed on me twice. I did not do anything to differentiate between the roads of USARoads and those of American Data.Questions:Could a conflict there have possibly contributed to the crash?How does one use the "roads" from one package while excluding those of another?I'll add my hearty "Amen", to your thought concerning the helpfulness of these threads and the expert knowledge that is available in the community. My thanks to all who assist in any small measure.

As a Mapserver member you can download terrains, roads, waters, landclass scenery - very fast!!! - at a very reasonable price:www.fsproject.com/mapserveri'm very happy of my choices !!thanks

>Could a conflict there have possibly contributed to the>crash?>How does one use the "roads" from one package while excluding>those of another?Each project has their own configuration utility. You can simply turn off the AD roads and leave the USAroads on. The AD configurator is a bit finnicky - just remember the "last in first out" dictum: Whatever change you make last, undo that one first when uninstalling these things or it may get confused!

I thought I should write the results of my experience so far.In short : Landclass did it for me!With Landclass and the 38m mesh for the US (which I had already installed), I have to report that my scenery now has completely come to life.I spend most of my time flying high anyway, and the combination above has given me a stunning scenery. I can finally recognize the areas I fly over in real life, everytime I cross the Sierra Nevada eastbound and watch the scenery outside, it brings a smile to my face.The scenery is so much more accurate now, even the colors, I don't know how, but this combination has reproduced, for example, the gold that pervades the hills to the East of the Bay Area as well as the Sierra foothills. I've flown over areas I've ridge-soared in real life and seen terrain features that I didn't expect to. Truly nice with so little impact on my frame rates.I can see why roads and waters become the next step, since the terrain is now so accurate, some of these features become weird, such as rivers that flow up and down hills, but I can live with that (for now) because I've seen so few of them.As far as florida is concerned, I will wait for "Freeflow" before I do anything in that area.As far as performance goes, I've done some research on this and other forums regarding FS9.CFG settings, and have found a few things that seem to "unleash the power" of my mere-mortal intel graphics card. Visibility was brought up 40k, but I'm still working on this.Thanks for the help.

>I will wait for "Freeflow" before I do anything in that area.It will be all you need for Florida! It comes with land class, water class, new shorelines and water features, even roads and bridges. I don't want to put a date on it, especially because those "little things" are always the hardest to fix and tend to pop up at the last minute, but I'd say we're inside two weeks...Best,sg

Well I dont consider your price for downloading... reasonable.Especially when you get the same from many sources free... or even when you pay membership at Http://flightsim.com for LESS

yeah, souping up my canadian landscape to a mind-boggling perfection ruined my simming experience altogether. now i can't go where i loved to before--africa, south america--they look sooooo... plain? :-lol