I usually land so that I almost never have a negative pitch during approach.For some airstrips, this doesn't seem to be an appropriate technique (e.g. when landing with a DHC-6 at TFFJ).I'm now unsure how to proceed when such a diving approach is to be made, and what happens during it.My instinct says that I need to cut the trottles to idle during the dive (prop pitch full fine) and leave them there if possible until ground contact (which occurs with nose up, of course, it's clear that I need to pull the nose up the last moment ;-) ), is that true?Will the props produce enough drag so that speed doesn't increase to an extent where I'd need a stretched flare to make it dissipate, having the wheels touch down at the same point as they would in a normal (nose up) approach?Andreas

First rule in flying, never dive at the runway. A much better way is to trim your aircraft for the proper approach speed, and control your altitude and glide path with power. If you need to descend faster, you could try slipping the aircraft, if it is not an aircraft that prohibits slips with full flaps ( like a Cessna 172 for instance). Slowing the aircraft up with pitch will result in a steeper descent path, but watch your air speed and leave a safety buffer above stall speed. The bible for learning the basics of flying including much information on landing, is called " Stick and Rudder" by Wolfgang Langewiesche. It is available on Amazon.com and is highly recommended by many Flight Instructors.

It is all about speed. As a general rule of thumb choose an approach speed that is 1.3 * the stall speed (depending on flap setting of course). Add 10 kts to the approach speed for your base leg if joining VFR. If you choose that speed your attitude will be correct. Reduce your speed to your approach speed minus 5 or 10 kts as you approach the threshold (the piano keys). If the aircraft is modelled properly, The 1.3 * stall speed will place the aircraft on the induced drag (lift drag as opposed to shape drag) side of the drag curve and make it easier to control the speed as well.You will only need idle power if you are high. With the Twotter you should be able to virtually dive bomb the runway to get it in with full flaperon and idle. I had to do this during my test on a glide approach in a 152, much to the amusement of my instructor looking on nervously from the apron!As you say, props should be full fine before you begin the approach.

Hello Andreas,The above rules are very good, but there are exceptions to everything.This is the proper attitude at St. Barth:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/118493.jpgNose pointing straight down! Just as you come across the Col, you will be too high if you are above the shrine on the left. How do you know if you are too low? Your gear scrapes the roof of the cars on the road! There is a lot of turbulence right here, so watch out! Then, point the nose down and, when you are at the threshold, flare. Push down on the brakes really hard when your gear is on the runway because it is not very long. Try to control the trembling in your body and the high rate of your heart beat.Fortunately, most of that hill has been leveled recently in real life, so real-world pilots have it a lot easier.Best regards.Luis

>If you>need to descend faster, you could try slipping the aircraft,>if it is not an aircraft that prohibits slips with full flaps>( like a Cessna 172 for instance).Actually you are not prohibited from slipping with full flaps in a Cessna 172. The placard on them says that slips with full flaps should be "avoided", but it does not say "prohibited". The main reason to avoid them is that you get strong elevator oscillations causing the control column to jerk in and out.The best chance of a successful landing is always to have a good stabilised approach, and remember the golden rule, if things are not going well, go around and try again.

I'm looking at the plate furnished in the Simplates 2004 collection. I'm just curious if I am reading the French provided plate correctly in that Rwy 28 slopes up from 7 meters at the threshold to 49 meters at the far end. If so, with the lower obstacle course, would this not be the preferred runway with a mild tailwind? Of course not in FS9 which does not model runway sloping unless there are exceptions. I notice departures from Rwy28 are prohibited.Full prop pitch is sometimes called "flat-blading" as it offers maximum drag. It is popular in some commuter twins that have to approach final at high speed and then rapidly slow to accommodate dense traffic where present. It also provides the prop setting for a go-around if needed (but at St Barth the plate says no go-around permitted for aircraft on short final -- huh?). It also provides the max thrust to power adjustment response (like an auto in first or second gear) so your control adjustments have a more immediate effect.For STOL (Short Takeoff Or Landing) operations, the aircraft operations manual will specify the proper airspeed to maintain the proper descent/ascent for obstacle clearance and runway length limits.Sounds like an interesting destination to try.

We have the trade winds in the Caribbean, they are predominantly easterly-northeasterly or easterly-southeasterly, depending on the time of year.So, you will not get runway 28 (or 27) anywhere in the region. In addition, because of the hill, go-arounds would be impossible, and are expressly forbidden at St. Barth if you do happen by chance to get the runway 28 approach.The only time you might get that approach is when qualifying for the landing authorization - you must do 2 landings for each side. Or, at least, that is how it used to be. Now, with the leveling of the obstacle, the rules may very well have changed.Here is another picture of the approach from inside the Twin Otter:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/118525.jpgScary to have the nose pointing straight down so close to the ground, especially with all the turbulence right here. Of course, this explains all the accidents and unfortunate deaths.By the way, all heights on French charts are in feet, so it is 7 feet at runway 28 and 49 feet at runway 10, Latest chart for St. Barth is here:http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/aip...AD%202.TFFJ.pdfand all French charts are available here:http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/Best regards.Luis

>Hello Andreas,>>The above rules are very good, but there are exceptions to>everything.>Luis,As we've read in the Pro-Pilot forum, Jerry mentioned a "diving" approach with the RV6A and his instructional lessons, that was un-like any Cessna he had ever landed.It's not a dive, as in a lot of forward stick, but the RV with full flaps gives you a lot of nose down attitude. Add that to the full slip he mentions, in addition to the braking action of the C/S prop, and it's like a bat out of He## going down, that just lost it's wings! :D A real good highspeed elevator ride....................downward!!!I use to do this with a retired airline captain in his RV. Great fun, but different. And the real trick is arresting the descent at the bottom!L.Adamson

some quick lessons:Most GA airplanes will have a nose down attitude during approach. You'll "round out" at say 10-30' above the runway, and then pull the nose slighty up, while airspeed keeps bleeding off. As the airspeed lowers, pull back more (gently) to keep the plane from touching the runway (flare). If flying speed is lost a few inches above the runway, and the nosewheel is in the air, too touch on the mains first, it's good. Keep track of the stall speed, while you're doing this.A constant speed prop, will act as an airbrake on an approach. You can come in faster & higher with a C/S. If you need to make an approach, at say 90 kias for flap deployment, and you're 120, then just pull back power, and hold level while the airspeed bleeds off.All planes are not the same. With some, you can easily cut power over the threshold to idle, and come on in. With others, you might need to carry some throttle to arrest the descent in the flare, or carry a higher approach speed to begin with. A lot of this depends on wing loading (weight versus size of wing). Some heavier wing loadings will seem to drop out like a brick during the flare, instead of a floating tendency. This is where you arrest this "brick drop" with a bit of throttle.L.Adamson

Perhaps, but one way or another, your descent will be arrested! :)

You can find an excellent, thorough discussion of landing techniques in Chapter 8, "Approaches and Landings," in "The Airplane Flying Handbook," one of several training handbooks available for free download (in PDF format) from the FAA's Web site. Chapter 14 of the same book discusses flying mulitengine aircraft and serves as a good introduction to the special techniques generally applied to flying multiengine aircraft.You might also want to consult Chapters 5 and 9 of the "Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge," the latest version of which discusses small piston-powered aircraft was well as turboprop and turbofan aircraft. You can find links to these books and many other sources of free information at:http://www.microsoft.com/games/flightsimul...ree_add-ons.asp

Just to support what L. is saying, the nose up attitude on approach is typical only of swept wing aircraft capable of transonic speeds. This is because the swept wing configuration and the thin section required for transonic speeds doesn't actually produce much lift but is capable of very high angles of attack, therefore proper the approach AoA of a say a heavy, will always be nose high. Obviously, the use of speedbrakes could generate so much drag the situation changes (BAe 146 for example). But you wouldn't see nose high approached on any other type of fixed wing aircraft.Anyway, as they say: A good landing is one you can walk away from. An excellent landing is one where you can reuse the airplane afterwards :)