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Missed approach climb gradient

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This is just an example below, i was looking at this last night and it got me thinking. Is the MACG based on OE or AE approach? and i seen this...

 

Approach climb limited weights (2.1%) and Missed approach climb Gradient weights (2.5% or greater)

 

What are the differences in these?

 

It also mentions Turn 3.0% What is the meaning of this?

 

 

 

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Also if i read a MNM CLB gradient of 7% to 7000 how can i work out my AC will make this during DEPT on the SID? I know you use GS X gradient % 

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Is the MACG based on OE or AE approach?

Not sure what you mean here.

 

The doc states different minima for different climb gradients on missed approach. If you can't make one of the higher gradients your minima will generally be higher. If the MAP requires e. g. 4.0% then you need to make sure you can do that. 2.5% is the general minimum for any MAP. Turn means the gradient you need to be able to maintain during turns.

 

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All engine or one engine MACG is the chart % referring to normal or non normal?

 

I can't find any performance charts to work out my % or even for the turn 3.0 % 

 

why would the chart specify a turn in the first place? to avoid terrain of course.

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I've never heard of the abbreviation OE or AE but I'll take an educated guess that you're abbreviating "One Engine" or "All Engine"

 

Missed Approach's are generally based on a 2.5% MACG. Any MACG over 2.5% the crew must verify that at the expected landing weight of the aircraft that a missed approach can be flown at a gradient equal to or greater than the applicable MACG in the one-engine INOP missed approach configuration.

 

For 737-800 that's one engine at TOGA thrust, gear retracted at F15.

 

The minimum approach Climb gradient of 2.1% is actually based on my operators Maximum Landing Weight and has to be met for all approaches.

 

Certain destinations, such as Salzburg, will require a steeper MACG and the Landing weight will have to be lower to confirm that in the event of an engine failure a missed approach can be safely flown.

 

 

Samuel Breese.

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I can't find any performance charts to work out my % or even for the turn 3.0 %

 

Did you look at PD G/A Climb Gradient?

 

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It also mentions Turn 3.0% What is the meaning of this?

 

I forgot to mention, this is very specific to Salzburg and airports surrounded by mountainous terrain. All the landing minima onto RW15 into Salzburg is based on the MACG which are specified for the straight and turn phases of the missed approach. The maximum landing weight is based on the most critical of the two and with regards to my operator is computed for us and provided in tables in our briefing pack.

 

if i read a MNM CLB gradient of 7% to 7000 how can i work out my AC will make this during DEPT on the SID? I know you use GS X gradient %

I can't find any performance charts to work out my % or even for the turn 3.0 %

 

We have access to a preamble or Air Ops Performance Manual which provides instructions for the use of take-off landing and en-route performance data for almost every situation. Or I should really say all that information is programmed into our EFB and we just fill in the gaps!

 

Hope I have helped to answer your question.

 

Samuel Breese.

 

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Missed Approach's are generally based on a 2.5% MACG. Any MACG over 2.5% the crew must verify that at the expected landing weight of the aircraft that a missed approach can be flown at a gradient equal to or greater than the applicable MACG in the one-engine INOP missed approach configuration.

 

Right so charts stating MACG % is all based on OEI ? And not normal conditions?

 

 

computed for us and provided in tables in our briefing pack.

 

Being a simmer and not having access to EFB like you guys do makes things harder lol

 

So is there anyway i can work out my turn % i can't see why how this is used?

 

Thanks for the help so far ;)

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If i get an engine failure during a go around do i follow the EOSID procedure?

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If you really want to learn properly, I suggest you follow a pilot syllabus and buy some text books. You've jumped from Aircraft Engineering, into Performance Engineering... Very sporadic, and waay to deep for this forum, and for most simmers (you and I). You will continue to struggle, unless you spend the money to learn properly. The 737 Performance Reference Handbook is a good textbook to understand climb gradients/performance - its good for the enthusiast and professional alike.

 

Further, there are no easy ways to answer your questions, as much of the info needed to explain contain proprietary information and involves complex calculations which can only be learned by undertaking formal training.

 

What you do during an engine failure on go-around depends on what is promulgated on the charts, typically tailored by a company; which incorporates aircraft performance, terrain/obstacle clearance etc. There are whole departments dedicated to this stuff, who develop tools and procedures for pilots to use with aim of reducing their workload, and increasing safety. I.e. Boeing OPT, Company tailored Jepp's, Company designed departure charts (seperate to the Jepps, but used in conjunction with) etc.

 

Brian Nellis.

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Thanks for the wise words brian. I'm starting to realise this on this topic. All the pilots have there EFB and brief package to handle all this unlike us.

 

I just want to make it as real as possible !

 

The 737 Performance Reference Handbook is a good textbook to understand climb gradients/performance - its good for the enthusiast and professional alike.

 

I just checked this on google and i see you can get it for the ipad :)

Thanks for the wise words brian. I'm starting to realise this on this topic. All the pilots have there EFB and brief package to handle all this unlike us.

 

I just want to make it as real as possible !

 

The 737 Performance Reference Handbook is a good textbook to understand climb gradients/performance - its good for the enthusiast and professional alike.

 

I just checked this on google and i see you can get it for the ipad :)

What you do during an engine failure on go-around depends on what is promulgated on the charts, typically tailored by a company

 

 

Yeh thats what i've been reading, companys have there own escape plane for EO go around

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Me too! Please don't misinterpret what I'm saying though. Keep asking those hard questions, I've learnt alot! And i enjoy seeing your questions! Much better than some of the other garbage that gets dumped in these forums every now and then. But seriously, if you can afford it, that textbook is great!

 

Brian Nellis

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I just want to make it as real as possible !

 

Then learn the way real pilots do, by following a structured syllabus.  What you are doing now is analogous to a child teaching himself to swim by jumping into the deep end of the pool.

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If i get an engine failure during a go around do i follow the EOSID procedure?

 

Airline dependent. My current airline you follow the MAP. A previous airline you'd follow the EOSID.

 

I never understood why you'd follow the EOSID since you're already at a minimum of 200 feet and flying vs a V1 cut where you'd be a 0 knots and on the ground at the same geographic location.

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I never understood why you'd follow the EOSID since you're already at a minimum of 200 feet and flying vs a V1 cut where you'd be a 0 knots and on the ground at the same geographic location.

Maybe cause the EOSID accounts for the most limiting set of circumstances? So when you go missed with OEI, you're likely to be flying at, or greater than, the lowest procedure design specs, I.e the lowest climb gradient for the segments. That coupled with the fact that you may be able to negate the need to design a whole new path for a OEI MAP.... Maybe? What are your thoughts?

 

Brian Nellis

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Then learn the way real pilots do, by following a structured syllabus.

 

Hi Joe:

 

Is such a syllabus something that is publicly available? I've seen Captain Mike's NG Syllabus, but I'm not sure that's what you mean.

 

Regards,

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Me too! Please don't misinterpret what I'm saying though. Keep asking those hard questions, I've learnt alot! And i enjoy seeing your questions! Much better than some of the other garbage that gets dumped in these forums every now and then. But seriously, if you can afford it, that textbook is great!

 

Brian Nellis

 

Haha thankyou! I only ask questions that i find hard to answer or find.

Then learn the way real pilots do, by following a structured syllabus.  What you are doing now is analogous to a child teaching himself to swim by jumping into the deep end of the pool.

 

Easy for you to say. You've had training from your airlines. Me? I have to do this all my own.

 

Do you know what books or materials i can start from?

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Easy for you to say. You've had training from your airlines. Me? I have to do this all my own.

Do you know what books or materials i can start from?

 

I'm not sure what's available publicly, at least for free anyway.  Mike Ray's books are a good starting point for the casual simmer.  The Boeing materials you received with the NGX are more than sufficient to learn the 737 but they assume a fairly high level of previous knowledge and experience.  What you might find beneficial more than anything else would be a study guide for the instrument and commercial ratings.  You have to pour the foundation before you can build the house.

 

As far as a syllabus to follow the FCTM is laid out pretty well.  It starts with general information followed by maneuvers and finishes up with non-normal operations.  Start at the beginning and don't move on to the next section until you have a complete understanding of the current one.  Based on some of your questions you are jumping around and skipping ahead to the non-normal ops before you have a handle on the normal procedures.

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I have alot of materials at hand now its just getting the time to go through it all. Been looking at the FCOM PD and PI is performance dispatch mean, what you would use during planning stage? And performance inflight is anything from preflight in the cockpit?

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I have alot of materials at hand now its just getting the time to go through it all. Been looking at the FCOM PD and PI is performance dispatch mean, what you would use during planning stage? And performance inflight is anything from preflight in the cockpit?

Dispatch is for planning. Can we go? PI is after you've launched and you need to check something.

 

This is also SOP specific. Different governing bodies have different rules for this type of thing and no one answer will be correct.

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We get our inflight landing performance data via ACARS.  We send an entry with the planned landing weight and the airport and it sends us a report similar to the one you get from TOPCAT.  If our ACARS is inop we have tables in our performance manual to calculate the data manually.


I thought that cheers!

I just got this for my ipad...

http://www.performance737.com

 

If you don't mind spending $60 on an iPad app the 737 Cockpit Companion app is an excellent systems reference and training aid.

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If you don't mind spending $60 on an iPad app the 737 Cockpit Companion app is an excellent systems reference and t

 

Got the book aswell and also the FMC users guide which is amazing

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What does N-1 mean i've seen this abbv relating to climb gradients?

 

Is it N1 %

Also my Boeing FCOM PI and PD is run by FAA. Is this still ok to use even though i'm in the UK?

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