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PGBosak

@PMDG: findings & thoughts

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Gents,

 

I did my first YSSY-LOWW with 3 auxilary tanks on the LR yesterday and noticed auto-step-climb stopped working, when reaching 

FL340. It worked fine between FL 300 and FL340, but when the 77L should be leveled at FL380 already it still was at FL340. (P3Dv2.5; W7 64 bit, ASN)

 

Btw. if someone else experiences G2D events with the last Nvidia WHQL driver, give it a try to go back to 347.88 WHQL. (it seems to be really stable on extremely long flights)

 

 

Some thoughts:

 

"Crew Alertness Monitor"

i normally don't use this company option, because i can't set the idle trigger myself. If i could set it to e.g. 5 hours like i have seen it in real i would let it more likely enabled. But its annoying to push every hour a button between KLAX and YSSY.

 

I hope we'll get the chance to personalize this option anytime soon, at least in future PMDG aircrafts.

 

And my last thought refers to operations center:

 

As i spend lot of time doing long hauls with the lovely 777 and saving my flight status cyclic with fsuipc autosaves, literally tons of files are being generated in PMDG panelstate folder.

 

It would be handy, if the whole folder could be cleaned via  OC GUI (except the standard panelsaves) when pressing a cleaning button. Maybe also a feature recovering unintentionally cleaned standard panel saves through OC (caching them) without using the aircraft installer again.

 

cheers

Paul

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As i spend lot of time doing long hauls with the lovely 777 and saving my flight status cyclic with fsuipc autosaves, literally tons of files are being generated in PMDG panelstate folder.

 

Hi Paul,

 

There's a feature in FSUIPC called "Also Manage" that can be configured to take

care of PMDG autosaved panel states the same way it does for normal autosave

files. It will prevent autosaved PMDG panel states from piling up. I'm not at my FS computer right now but I think there is an example

for the PMDG 747 that can be easily adapted to the 777 or NGX. It's in

one of the FSUIPC pdf manuals.

 

Mike

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I did my first YSSY-LOWW with 3 auxilary tanks on the LR yesterday and noticed auto-step-climb stopped working, when reaching 
FL340. It worked fine between FL 300 and FL340, but when the 77L should be leveled at FL380 already it still was at FL340. (P3Dv2.5; W7 64 bit, ASN)

 

Need more info here. What was your max alt? Did you manually adjust the MCP ALT somehow? What was the OPT ALT?

 

 

 


"Crew Alertness Monitor"
i normally don't use this company option, because i can't set the idle trigger myself. If i could set it to e.g. 5 hours like i have seen it in real i would let it more likely enabled. But its annoying to push every hour a button between KLAX and YSSY.
 
I hope we'll get the chance to personalize this option anytime soon, at least in future PMDG aircrafts.

 

5 hours is well beyond any limit I've seen. That's half of a flight in some cases (or for shorter routes like IAD to LHR, nearly the entire flight), which does crews little to no good, honestly. Do you have a specific reference to a CAM being set to 5 hours? (By specific reference, we mean some hard copy of information that's verifiable, and not just "saw it on YouTube," etc.)

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Hi Paul,

 

There's a feature in FSUIPC called "Also Manage" that can be configured to take

care of PMDG autosaved panel states the same way it does for normal autosave

files. It will prevent autosaved PMDG panel states from piling up. I'm not at my FS computer right now but I think there is an example

for the PMDG 747 that can be easily adapted to the 777 or NGX. It's in

one of the FSUIPC pdf manuals.

 

Mike

 

 

Hi Mike,

 

will look into that, thx

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Hi Mike,

 

will look into that, thx

 

 

Hi, Paul,

 

Take a look in the FSUIPC4 for Advanced Users manual, search "alsomanage"; in my copy page 14.  It's pretty straightforward.

 

Mike

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Need more info here. What was your max alt? Did you manually adjust the MCP ALT somehow? What was the OPT ALT?

 

 

 

Hi Kyle,

 

I left the computer with FL300, when i came back (several hours later; total flighttime was 18h 21min, no time acceleration, it stuck with FL340 when the opt. alt suggested FL380.

No manual adjustment in the meantime. Normally the auto step climb works fine (200LR, F, 300ER) but it was the first time i had chosen the 3 aux tanks and that

seems affect the ASC feature in a negative way. I don't know when i start the return flight but i am sure this will happen again on an odd level. (btw. this issue is

no big deal, i just wanted to let you know.

 

 

5 hours is well beyond any limit I've seen. That's half of a flight in some cases (or for shorter routes like IAD to LHR, nearly the entire flight), which does crews little to no good, honestly. Do you have a specific reference to a CAM being set to 5 hours? (By specific reference, we mean some hard copy of information that's verifiable, and not just "saw it on YouTube," etc.)

 

The info was taken from  a 777 Cockpit DVD years ago. They demonstrated what will happen on a flight where no inputs are given for a long interval, in that case it was 5 hours, as far as i remember it was a flight form YSSY to KLAX or vice versa. I would be happy if i only had to react once or twice during a pacific crossing, regardless how real this is today. The alternative is to deactivate it totally, but i'd prefer to control this interval on my own.  B)

Hi, Paul,

 

Take a look in the FSUIPC4 for Advanced Users manual, search "alsomanage"; in my copy page 14.  It's pretty straightforward.

 

Mike

 

Hi Mike,

 

i got it, will prepare my ini before the next flight, thank you very much.

fsuipc is really a mighty tool.  :wub:

 

cheers

paul

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Btw. if someone else experiences G2D events with the last Nvidia WHQL driver, give it a try to go back to 347.88 WHQL. (it seems to be really stable on extremely long flights)

 

Can you elaborate on this? Do you think 347.88 or 353.06 is better on long flights and why? Today I went from 347.88 to 353.06 and I am doing YSSY-CYVR now so curious to see how it compares to your thoughts. 

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Can you elaborate on this? Do you think 347.88 or 353.06 is better on long flights and why? Today I went from 347.88 to 353.06 and I am doing YSSY-CYVR now so curious to see how it compares to your thoughts. 

 

Hi Jordan,

 

did a lot of really long flights with 347.88 driver without any issues (P3Dv2.5). Changed to 352.86 and had 2 G2D events within 5 flights. So i changed back, and the issues were gone. As this driver seems to be really stable and compatible (referring p3d lights issue) i didn't upgrade to 353.06 anymore because there is no further increase in stability when already stable.  ^_^

 

G2D events are hard to solve. If one is being confronted with that i'd start to rollback the driver at first. Thats what i've been trying to say before.

 

cheers

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I don't know when i start the return flight but i am sure this will happen again on an odd level.

 

 

 

Have to correct myself. Return flight LOWW-YSSY worked fine. So that issue wasn't related to the aux-tank option, as thought before.

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The info was taken from  a 777 Cockpit DVD years ago. They demonstrated what will happen on a flight where no inputs are given for a long interval, in that case it was 5 hours, as far as i remember it was a flight form YSSY to KLAX or vice versa. I would be happy if i only had to react once or twice during a pacific crossing, regardless how real this is today. The alternative is to deactivate it totally, but i'd prefer to control this interval on my own. 

 

The CAM (Crew Alertness Monitor) trigger times can be programmed by maintenance via the MAT interface on the B777s (if the customer has purchased the CAM customer option from Boeing).

 

As Kyle said, a 5 hour trigger would pretty much defeat the purpose and I doubt any carrier would set it this high (if even possible).

 

These are the default Boeing values: 

 

 

20 mins: eicas message "pilot response" and no sound.

25 mins: eicas caution message "pilot resonse" and a caution bleep.

30 mins: eicas warning (red) "pilot response" and a continuous wailer.

 

I can confirm that EK and KLM use the default trigger times above as they both purchased the CAM customer option. I have yet to hear of a operator that purchased the CAM and decided to use different trigger times (keep in mind not all B777 operators purchased this customer option). I am pretty confident PMDG set theirs to the exact same value. Will check/confirm on my next flight in the sim.

 

FCOM 15.20.13 

 

Crew Alertness Monitor

The FMC continuously monitors switch action on the MCP, EFIS control panel, display select panel, CDUs, and radio transmitter microphone switches. When a predefined time elapses after the last switch action was detected, the EICAS alert message PILOT RESPONSE is displayed.

The message is inhibited: • Below20,000feet,

• During climb, and

• When flaps are not up. 

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To add to this, we do appreciate it when people point us to corrections, but as I mentioned earlier, they need to be verifiably sourced and, if in the case of a bug, be accompanied by some sort of reproducable set of actions to trigger the issue. That helps us chase it down, and also (in the process of trying to get it to be reproduceable) helps to flush out user error.

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As Kyle said, a 5 hour trigger would pretty much defeat the purpose and I doubt any carrier would set it this high (if even possible).

 

It's long ago i've seen the whole Air Canada 200LR YSSY-CYVR DVD but i am still pretty sure they spoke of an intervall of 5h. You will not see the essential part

on the Youtube advertising clip i already checked it out. But my point isn't if this is realistic.

 

Autostepclimbs aren't realistic as well, but very useful. It's just too bad, you have to deactivate an option completely because you can't individualise it.

 

That's why i'm asking. I had hoped this is something which could easily being changed in a specific *.ini, etc,...

 

cheers

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It's long ago i've seen the whole Air Canada 200LR YSSY-CYVR DVD but i am still pretty sure they spoke of an intervall of 5h. You will not see the essential part

on the Youtube advertising clip i already checked it out. But my point isn't if this is realistic.

 

Autostepclimbs aren't realistic as well, but very useful. It's just too bad, you have to deactivate an option completely because you can't individualise it.

 

That's why i'm asking. I had hoped this is something which could easily being changed in a specific *.ini, etc,...

 

cheers

 

 

Actually, you can see it in action in the justplanes Air Canada preview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_llyS20J0Ac#t=4m28s

 

 

A 5 hour trigger for the initial PILOT RESPONSE is out of question.......why?

 

Look at what re-sets the trigger to start counting from 0 again, 

 

FCOM 15.20.13 

 

Crew Alertness Monitor

The FMC continuously monitors switch action on the MCP, EFIS control panel, display select panel, CDUs, and radio transmitter microphone switches. When a predefined time elapses after the last switch action was detected, the EICAS alert message PILOT RESPONSE is displayed.

The message is inhibited: • Below20,000feet,

• During climb, and

• When flaps are not up. 

 

So with 100% certainty, the crew definitely did touch one of the following over a 5 hour interval MCP, EFIS control panel, display select panel, any CDU (FMC) button, and radio transmitter microphone switches.

 

Something as simple as a fuel burn check while comparing to the CFP (computer flight plan) will definitely result in CDU (FMC) buttons being pressed, and there is no way the pilot responsible will be doing these in less than 1hour intervals....

 

As mentioned previously, I have yet to hear of a operator that chose to alter the default Boeing time triggers for PILOT RESPONSE, and 5 hours is definitely not something any carrier would ever set (if even technically possible). 

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Actually, you can see it in action in the justplanes Air Canada preview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_llyS20J0Ac#t=4m28s

 

 

 

You didn't read my post well enough. The essential part i'm referring to and having in mind isn't caught by Youtube. As far as i remember they said it shortly before this clips starts. But if you still haven't got it, i do not insist on that. So there is no need to discuss this any longer

 

I just wanted to have the option otherwise it will be disabled forever, because it is annoying to silence it periodically. And this is a fact regardless what your FCOM says.  :ph34r:

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You didn't read my post well enough. The essential part i'm referring to and having in mind isn't caught by Youtube. As far as i remember they said it shortly before this clips starts. But if you still haven't got it, i do not insist on that. So there is no need to discuss this any longer

 

I just wanted to have the option otherwise it will be disabled forever, because it is annoying to silence it periodically. And this is a fact regardless what your FCOM says.  :ph34r:

 

Paul,

 

You are the one that clearly doesn't understand. I gave you a FCOM reference for the PILOT RESPONSE function. Did you care to read it? 

 

In the video linked above, they are roughly half way to YSSY from CYVR. How you can still be convinced that the trigger is 5 hours is beyond me. I suggest you re-read the conditions that will start the triggers timer from 0 again....

 

You either did not read my post above, or you simply don't understand it.

 

As of now, you are telling me the crew was able to not press a single CDU, MCP, EFIS etc. button for 5 hours which enabled the PILOT RESPONSE to trigger  80P

 

PMDG modeled the Crew Alertness Monitor 100% correctly and that is all I am concerned about. If you need to disable it so be it. But do make unsupported and incorrect claims about a aircraft system and not expect to be corrected when you are in the support forum for that very aircraft...

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PMDG modeled the Crew Alertness Monitor 100% correctly and that is all I am concerned about.

 

Good as gold, but not the topic in my thread. QED!

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