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drebles

-300ER Assumed Temperature for Take Off?

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Hi all,

 

First time properly posting here on the AVSIM (& PMDG) forums.

 

I've been flying the -200LR/F for quite some time using TOPCAT's PMDG 777 profiles for getting assumed temperatures for take off N1 reduction values (is that the correct term?). I was wondering if there is any ywa I can figure it out the same sort of numbers for the bigger -300ER? I presume the profile from TOPCAT cannot be used with the -300ER given the -200LR is a smaller aircraft.

 

If you have any recommendations for software or tables where I can get this information, that would be really useful.

 

Thanks!

 

Andreas

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Hi,

 

First, you must sign your posts with full names.

Regarding the assumed temperature for the -300ER, there is another soft around there that can give you the figures. I'm not pretty sure if I can give the full name (advertisement...) but it starts also with TOP...

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I'm not pretty sure if I can give the full name (advertisement...) but it starts also with TOP...

 

Referencing a product isn't advertising it. Referencing it, parading it around, telling everyone how cool it is, all the amazing features it has, and then telling them they can get it for the "low low price of $12.34" would be. There would be, of course, an indication of conflict of interest if you were known to be one of the developers, but only if it gave the impression of advertising, and less of the impression of helping someone use the product with ours.

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Hi,

 

Thanks for the clarification!

 

The product is called TOPER if you wish to give a try.

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Looks very similar to the tool that is out there from Aurasim Q400.  Toper is only $10 for the entire 777 family so pretty good deal really.

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It is true that the previous version had no derated thrusts but it has been implemented in the actual one for the 777. I don't remember exactly but I think it is not in the 737 version.

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I don't think it has website or home page but it can be found here - http://secure.simmarket.com/toper-web-online-aircraft-performance-tool.phtml. Investigate it thoroughly. I was looking at it about 6 months ago and it had some kind of limitation like no derates or something like that This was for the NGX.

 

I purchased it around 8-9 months ago. Have been using it for the -200LR/F and -300ER. There has been a regular stream of updates which is great and the developer has been open to feedback and suggestions.

 

You can see the progress in new features/bug fixes here: http://forum.simflight.com/topic/75665-toper-tool-boeing-777-updates/

 

As mentioned above, fixed de-rates are now available (TO-1/TO-2). Previously it was only full TO and TO + assumed temperature (up to 70C).

 

Some operators, EK being one of them, only purchased the full TO rating and thus only do full TO and TO + Assumed temp takeoffs.  This being the reason why you have the ability to remove fixed de-rates from the FMC via the AIRCRAFT options menu, as it is a Boeing customer option in real life.

 

I purchased TOPCAT back in the FS9 747-400 days, and now use it for my NG (works perfecty), however the lack of ongoing development and lack of new aircraft additions (specifically the 777) has been very disappointing so that is what pushed me to look for alternatives, and TOPER has been a excellent replacement. I am aware that there is a beta for the -200LR/F, however it is full of bugs and the data is incomplete to this day.

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Would be great to integrate it to the PMDG 777 as an EFB option! 

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There has been a regular stream of updates which is great and the developer has been open to feedback and suggestions.

That's more than you can say for TOPCAT. Nothing from them since 2.74 Beta over a year ago. Their forum has been read only since January 2015. No posts. Probably devoting all of their time to PFPX.

 

For landing at any airport all I received is "Landing Not Authorized". Even on takeoffs especially at EDDF I have gotten derates and assumed temperatures the T7 FMC will not produce V speeds for. I just took off 25R at KLAX and I added 15 degrees to TOPCATS assumed temperature. More than enough margin left after becoming airborne. I treat TOPCAT's takeoff calculation and settings as kind of a recommendation as opposed to the absolute truth.

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For info, the same author of TOPER did also a tool for landing calculation called FS decelerate for PMDG Boeing 777. 

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Thanks guys! I appreciate your help. I'll look into the "TOPER" app and see what I think. In terms of accuracy & consistency, how good is it for those that use it? The price is impressive too at roughly £10.

 

Andreas Theophanatos

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As of now we are at Version 3.2.2. The resulting V speeds and assumed temps are spot on. I had the opportunity to compare various results from TOPER to those of Boeing takeoff performance tool (a friend flying the B777 was kind enough to rin the numbers on his end).

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I use TOPCAT with the 77F profile.  Everything is spot on except for the speeds, for which I use those given by the FMS.

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I use TOPCAT with the 77F profile.  Everything is spot on except for the speeds, for which I use those given by the FMS.

 

The V speeds in a proper takeoff performance calculator will be far more accurate than those given in the FMC. In the real world you would override or enter manually the speeds given in the takeoff performance calculator.

 

Alex

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The V speeds in a proper takeoff performance calculator will be far more accurate than those given in the FMC. In the real world you would override or enter manually the speeds given in the takeoff performance calculator.

 

Alex

yeah,but is there any way to completely override them? if the Vspeed insterted is more than 4-5 knots dofferent it doesn't accept,any way for it?

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yeah,but is there any way to completely override them? if the Vspeed insterted is more than 4-5 knots dofferent it doesn't accept,any way for it?

 

Yep,

 

If you go onto page two and put some entries in (wind, runway slope) the v speeds will get nearer to what your calculator is saying.

 

TLDR; only do this if the fmc won't allow you enter the figures manually. There is no need to use page 2 if you're using a takeoff performance calculator (apart from setting acceleration altitudes etc.)

 

Alex

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I use TOPCAT with the 77F profile.  Everything is spot on except for the speeds, for which I use those given by the FMS.

I pretty much do it the way you do. However, Alex Ridge (aceridgey) is correct, The V speeds in the FMC are for a balanced field.

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I bought the TOPER calculator. For £8 and all the variants of the 777 (if PMDG ever do make the -200ER I'd be very happy), it's an absolute steal. The V-speeds felt more 'realistic' compared to TOPCAT & what the FMC usually output by itself.

 

Thanks for all your help!

 

Andreas Theophanatos

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I use TOPCAT with the 77F profile.  Everything is spot on except for the speeds, for which I use those given by the FMS.

When you have the time try this data in TOPCAT and see what you come up with.
 
The following data should be entered into TOPCAT Takeoff page:
 
Wind 350/3
Temperature +23
Altimeter 30.15
Do not update weather
Take-off Weight lbs. 690283
Flaps Optimum
Thrust Optimum
A/C On
Anti-Ice Off/Auto
Airport EDDF
Runway 25C
Additional  info for 777F FMC - fuel (all in pounds) 191623, reserve 18943, taxi 1140, extra fuel 10000, CI 85, initial altitude FL 300, cargo 188000 lbs.
 
Compute it and see what TOPCAT recommends for about 1000 foot margin. Take that information and enter it on the Thrust Limits and Takeoff Page. I got no vspeeds available.

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For info, the same author of TOPER did also a tool for landing calculation called FS decelerate for PMDG Boeing 777.

Thanks Bud, didn't know about this sw.

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