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Driver170

Engine failure QRH

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Ok cheers. Question joe - when would you start using rudder trim to give your leg a break ;) is 4-5 units ample?

 

Also do you have to use little aileron in the sim unless you done it in real life...? I find in the NGX using small blips of aileron to keep wings level and on track.

 

Trim it out whenever you are comfortable.  Once I have the airplane stabilized I reach down and hold the rudder trim knob in the appropriate direction for 3-4 seconds initially, after that I tweak it as needed.  As for how many units?  Use whatever it takes.  I'm not looking at the trim indicator while I'm doing it, it's done by feel.

 

You shouldn't need any aileron to keep the wings level.  If you are having to hold aileron you haven't put in enough rudder.  Putting in aileron can bring the roll spoilers up and the last thing you want to be doing with an engine out is spoiling lift.


Joe Diamond

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I usually go for 3 - 4 units at 400ft at the same time reducing my rudder pedals back to the neutral position!

 

Well somehow my plane still banks slightly i will practise more tomorrow getting wings level without ailerons.

 

FCTM Rotation and liftoff

 

If the engine failure occurs at or after liftoff apply rudder and aileron to control heading and keep the wings level. In flight, correct rudder input approximately centers the control wheel. To center the control wheel, rudder is required in the direction that the control wheel is displaced. This approximates a minimum drag configuration

 

So of course, correct rudder trim centers the control wheel.


Vernon Howells

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I should clarify my statement, you shouldn't need any aileron once the aircraft is stabilized and trimmed out properly.


Joe Diamond

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Few tips

 

remember Aviate, Navigate, Comminicate

First fly, get the aircraft under control

then navigate (nav aids)

then talk to ATC


Vernon Howells

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Trim it out whenever you are comfortable.  Once I have the airplane stabilized I reach down and hold the rudder trim knob in the appropriate direction for 3-4 seconds initially, after that I tweak it as needed.  As for how many units?  Use whatever it takes.  I'm not looking at the trim indicator while I'm doing it, it's done by feel.

 

You shouldn't need any aileron to keep the wings level.  If you are having to hold aileron you haven't put in enough rudder.  Putting in aileron can bring the roll spoilers up and the last thing you want to be doing with an engine out is spoiling lift.

Hi Joe

 

First i want to thank you for contributing to these explanation of what should be done in a given situation .Your writing really makes sense and is easy to understand because you deal with facts and explains further real life thoughts and procedures as well .

 

You should have a seperate thread or website explaning these QRH things in your words :wink: . I would pay for this kind of education. (allthough still just a simmer)

 

Now if i may ask about this thing you wrote  :smile:

 

 

Can you explain to me  in the phrase down below here?

 

The Question is simply "Why is it a bad thing"?

 

"Putting in aileron can bring the roll spoilers up and the last thing you want to be doing with an engine out is spoiling lift."

 

 

 

 

Great stuff , Thanks  :smile:

 

 

 

Michael Moe


Michael Moe

 

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The Question is simply "Why is it a bad thing"?

 

"Putting in aileron can bring the roll spoilers up and the last thing you want to be doing with an engine out is spoiling lift."

 

Lift makes your plane fly.

 

Spoilers spoil lift.

 

If you're at low speed, you usually don't have a lot of lift reserve to be spoiling before the wing stops flying.


Kyle Rodgers

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I'm working through my PPL performance its worth starting off with the basics and getting a good understanding!


Vernon Howells

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Lift makes your plane fly.

 

Spoilers spoil lift.

 

If you're at low speed, you usually don't have a lot of lift reserve to be spoiling before the wing stops flying.

 

Thanks Kyle

 

 

You are still my top reference mentor in here offcause  :wink:

 

thanks again

 

Michael Moe


Michael Moe

 

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The United 747 incident in SFO back in 1998 is an excellent example of the effects of roll spoilers on single engine performance.  They lost an engine on takeoff.  The fairly inexperienced pilot kept the wings level with almost full aileron and hardly any rudder.  As a result the airplane could hardly climb and they ended up missing the terrain by only 100 feet.


Hi Joe

 

First i want to thank you for contributing to these explanation of what should be done in a given situation .Your writing really makes sense and is easy to understand because you deal with facts and explains further real life thoughts and procedures as well .

 

You should have a seperate thread or website explaning these QRH things in your words :wink: . I would pay for this kind of education. (allthough still just a simmer)

 

Now if i may ask about this thing you wrote  :smile:

 

 

Can you explain to me  in the phrase down below here?

 

The Question is simply "Why is it a bad thing"?

 

"Putting in aileron can bring the roll spoilers up and the last thing you want to be doing with an engine out is spoiling lift."

 

 

 

 

Great stuff , Thanks  :smile:

 

 

 

Michael Moe

 

Thanks.  I'm glad you find the information helpful.


Joe Diamond

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Just some technique I've picked up having flown a bunch of V1 cuts in real airplanes/full sims  (EMB-500, CRJ, ERJ-145)

 

1) Don't rush. Every SOP I've seen called for a climb to the FRA (usually 1000 AGL), level off, clean up, and continuing the climb at final segment speed (clean maneuvering speed in the 737) before you even thought about touching the engines. Doesn't matter if you've got the fire bell going off, you were not going to do the memory/immediate action items until you were at final segment speed with a positive rate. 

 

2) Rudder trim usage. This is personal gouge, but I will usually hold off on adding rudder trim until I'm stabilized at final segment speed, because that means I won't have to re-trim the airplane until I change the power. I never really had a gouge for units since I didn't look at the trim indicator, just felt the pressure. If you've got pedals for flight sim, just add trim until you've got no aileron in with the pedals centered. You don't fly based on suggested numbers, you fly to get the result you want. 

 

The exception to this was the Phenom, since it had a tiny, non-hydraulic rudder and required a ridiculous amount of pressure. You'd ask the PM to get some trim in there quick. 

 

3) Directional control. This is a biggie, but get established on your Engine Fail Path (EFP) as quickly as possible and don't let yourself deviate from it until you're above MSA. I've seen plenty of people accept 10°+ of error because that's where the nose ended up. If you don't fly the EFP you may get closer to terrain than you would have liked, especially when operating out of more confined airports.


Joe Sherrill

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