fsx-ms New laptop, ONE internal hard drive. Where to install FSX?

[SteveW 1,792]

It's no big deal if the computer comes with a partition, that's OK as I originally said. However, if you have a single drive, there's no need to partition as I also added.

 

Really, I'm saying indisputably the easiest way is to simply slam in the DVD and agree to install. If we do that we must check the Modify permission for the Users group on that folder before installing addons that write to the read only folders.

 

Whatever place it's installed that Users group checkbox should be clicked or problems can be laying in wait down the road, but that's no big deal to ignore.

 

As Bill says we may want to fiddle with the stock aircraft files and we want permission for that. Well, we did it the easy way, gave the permission. We didn't need to make a drive or folder but we can, it's just less easy. So now we have all the core FSX files and working files all on the main partition, that saves a lot of hassle. If we have a big partition we can put addon planes and scenery there, or if we want we can add a 1Tb drive and store 750Gb of photoscenery, that's cool too.

[bofhlusr 453]

UAC and permissions is a non-issue for me. The very first thing I do in my personal laptops is disable UAC. Additionally, I only have one user: administrator. I also remove all anti-virus. I know enough about PCs to make this a non-issue as well.

[SteveW 1,792]

Perhaps so, and it's OK for you, but I wouldn't recommend it for anyone really. I find disabling UAC or creating special users accounts is entirely unnecessary for any kind of use of Windows that I can think of.

Let's try and understand the issues that came about for FSX Boxed:

When we first make a user account on Windows we are a member of Admins, that does not suggest we have all permissions. Permissions granted to files and folders is different. When logged on we are also members of the Users group. When we make a personal drive or folder, *it belongs to the User*, not the Users group or Admins.

When Windows XP was around, some addons installed into the FSX folder, and they expected to be able to write to files stored there. This was known at that time to be incorrect procedure, and is now frowned on by LM P3D. After all, there were proper places for read/write files to be located within the security framework. Even so we got addons installed there and it really doesn't matter if we know what the problem is. These worked OK then since at that time files and folders in the Program Files folder were modifiable by Authorised Users, that is, members of the Users group. The User logged onto Windows had Modify permissions then.

The problem with the Program Files folder on Windows o/s later than XP, is that the Users group cannot ordinarily Modify files there, and not Admins either, it's the job of the Installer User.

So if we still allow FSX to install there and we install those addons, or as n4gix suggests, we want to edit the stock files, we need Modify rights.

So we can check the Modify permission for the Users Group on that folder, and it's devastatingly simple. We do that so that any authorised, logged on, ordinary network users can write to those files. Since that wasn't generally understood, users found they could get round the problem by making a new directory, or drive. Well sort of because it brings with it the possibility of other more insidious problems, but it is workable.

So that's OK, but as I mentioned before can come with the possibility of issues arising, like addons failing to install, corrupted account losing rights to apps, network users unable to access, and users in desperation taking ownership of files or drives and so on - all completely unnecessary - if only they knew about the one tiny Modify checkbox and the Users group.
 

And so, I always make a regular account on a new Windows box. I always check the Modify permission for the Users group on any folders I create that are going to have *apps installed into them*, irrespective of Program Files or not.


And after that, there's never any problems with addons there or across the network. I don't even need to know how to reduce the UAC level to zero, or make an account with full Admin privileges.
 
I don't need to make my own drive or folder, but I can. If I do, I understand that I may have to direct certain addons there, and some may never work correctly.
 
I don't need to worry about *only having a 250Gb partition on drive C:*. The core FSX files will all sit there nicely, program and working folders as I mentioned before. The sim can easily be extended from there with other drives or partitions in a precise logical manner.
 

I hope that helps clear up the confusion with the issue of Program Files at least, and the way ahead is clearer. There will be solutions to a lot of obvious and rather more hidden problems too, if that advice is followed. Even so, if we are confident and experienced with Windows we can get round any of those issues, but they really are unnecessary.

[bofhlusr 453]

Spoken like an engineer SteveW.  Thank you.

 

I don't know if you you'll know the answer to this question:  from the perspective of read speed only, would I gain any speed by installing FSX in the non-system partition instead of in the system partition when both partitions are in the same drive in Windows 10? Thanks.

[SteveW 1,792]

Yes that's a very interesting and astute question.

 

It remains to be seen if an ordinary drive, partitioned into two, and the FSX files spread across those rather than all the core files kept to the boot drive, where all the windows files and all the working files are kept as well, is a worse or better case.

 

Generally the sim will end up as fast as the slowest drive, so install windows and the sim on the fastest drive. With virtual FATs it's probably no impact on partitioned drives these days, worth some tests.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,970]

@Ray Proudfoot, thank you for the link but I am trying to simplify my life and weaning myself away from tinkering with hardware (see above) which is why I bought a laptop.  The laptop is new and one of those which do not have screws and is seemingly hard to crack open (battery is inaccessible), and replacing the HDD to SDD is not an option. 

 

Unrelated topic - how do I quote or reply to a specific post in this forum?  Pressing the quote or the multi-quote icons apparently doesn't work for me. Thanks.

 

oneleg ( a name would be better),

 

It would be a unusual laptop that had no access to the hard drive or memory slots. Take another look. It has to be there otherwise should the drive fail replacing it would be impossible. What make is it?

 

I suppose if you have no interest in changing a very slow HDD for a extremely fast SSD no further discussion is necessary. But you'll drive yourself mad with frequent defragging and long FSX load times.

 

To quote someone when you reply just press the Quote button.

[Jimm 437]

oneleg ( a name would be better),

 

It would be a unusual laptop that had no access to the hard drive or memory slots. Take another look. It has to be there otherwise should the drive fail replacing it would be impossible. What make is it?

 

I suppose if you have no interest in changing a very slow HDD for a extremely fast SSD no further discussion is necessary. But you'll drive yourself mad with frequent defragging and long FSX load times.

 

To quote someone when you reply just press the Quote button.

Well I know of one laptop that makes it nearly impossible to replace anything in it...it has a fruit on it. :(

 

Look at it this way, If  the OP is unwilling to share the hardware specs for this laptop, there isn't much more we can offer for advice.  As Ray so eloquently stated, a faster drive will provide a more efficient experience but if the OP cannot fix that, it is his choice.

 

If the OP is having issues with functionality of the site, he should direct his questions to the correct forum.

 

-Jim

[Ray Proudfoot 8,970]

Well I know of one laptop that makes it nearly impossible to replace anything in it...it has a fruit on it.

Ah yes, them. Enough said. But it does sound like an IBM-Compatible laptop as there are references to C drive and UAC etc.

 

This topic has surely run its course given the quantity and quality of the responses posted.

[bofhlusr 453]

@SteveW. Great post, thanks.

 

@Ray, I tried pressing Quote several times but it's not working for me.  Oh well, maybe I'm just overlooking something. I'll figure it out soon enough. Here's the info on the laptop again.  It is an Asus N550JX-DS71T.

@Jim, more details about the laptop than you probably want to know... bought it for about $900 on special sale, no shipping, no taxes and brand new a couple of weeks ago. It has a one year warranty but this will be voided if I muck around replacing or opening anything.  It has a 15.6" touch screen, discreet NVidia GPU 950M (2GB) and an i7-4720 cpu running at 2.6 Ghz  (3.6 Turbo). Comes with a DVD reader and writer which is unusual for an  'ultrabook laptop' nowadays. The DVD made it easy to install the retail version of FSX which is nice since it's a laptop and it means I don't have to have a net connection when travelling. Other specs: backlighted keyboard with green leds (prefer the color over the red ones), a separate subwoofer (another unusual feature for a laptop) and Bang & Olufsen speakers, and a unified aluminum body like the MacBooks.

 

The two big cons to this laptop -- non user-replaceable battery and 'apparently' no access to hardware internals (it's built like the Macbooks. I say 'apparently' because  I've dismantled and repaired laptops before since I used to supervise a tech lab about 20 years ago. Nothing is inaccessible if you put enough effort into it) but I'm tired of the endless upgrade cycle and trying my best to avoid dealing with hardware from now on. What I want to do next is see if I can design scenery. The default scenery for FSX for where I live no longer resembles the San Francisco I see today and it's starting to annoy me. :-)

 

After using Nickn's guide for Nvidia Inspector and  installing WOAI (which I find greatly increases the smoothness of FSX so long as I install only about a dozen AI airlines and GA planes) and with all FSX settings set to an equivalent of 9 out of 10 in a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 as the highest, FSX runs at about 30-40 fps (no bloom, no ground shadows, no water effects, no DX10, air and land traffic about 10-15). This goes down to about 15-18 after a lot of other addons are installed (mostly scenery and GA planes since I like flying low and slow).  I'm trying to see if I can get it up to specs to the same level as an old desktop running FSX with an i5-2500K overclocked to 4.3 GHZ with an EVGA nVidia GTX 580 1.5 GB gpu and Intel SSDs on Win 7. That, ran FSX at about 30 fps with addon's loaded but it was also *very heavily* optimized over the years.

 

By the way, if anyone is wondering why I call myself 'oneleg'...it's because I was in a plane crash and lost a leg.

 

---

P.S. I should add another con to the laptop.  It doesn't come with Windows 7. I'm stuck with later versions of Windows.  I don't want to mess around with downgrading to Windows 7 and dealing with driver downgrades for the laptop (touch pad driver, screencam, special F1 buttons, driver for the special subwoofer, dealing with recovery partitions, and many other possible compatibility issues).

[Ray Proudfoot 8,970]

Ray, I tried pressing Quote several times but it's not working for me.  Oh well, maybe I'm just overlooking something. I'll figure it out soon enough. Here's the info on the laptop again.  It is an Asus N550JX-DS71T.

 

By the way, if anyone is wondering why I call myself 'oneleg'...it's because I was in a plane crash and lost a leg.

Oneleg,

 

Ouch! Were you aware it has no user-replaceable parts when you bought it? To be honest I wouldn't touch something like that in a million years.

 

If you've bought it in the last 28 days see if the supplier will switch the HDD for an SSD. And ask your supplier what happens once the warranty ends and the HDD fails. How does it get replaced.

 

I now understand why you use that tag. Sorry to hear of your misfortune. I'm surprised you want to be reminded of it everytime you receive a forum message.

 

I have no idea why the Quote button doesn't work for you. I assume you're accessing the forum on your laptop.

[bofhlusr 453]

Yes, I was fully aware about the non-replaceable parts. I've always avoided Apple products for the same reason.  Everything is proprietary and non-user replaceable. But as in everything there's pros and cons and you get what you pay for. I bought the laptop because it was on sale and cheap and had good enough specs to run FSX and I was curious if FSX can now run on a cheap laptop. (The answer is yes).

 

When a part fails (hopefully at least a year or two from now), I'm hoping laptops will have become even cheaper.  I'll just replace the entire thing with a newer cheaper and more powerful laptop (or I can try to fix it, but life is getting too short).

 

Plus, laptops have a 21st century feel to it.  And desktops are now soooo passe. At least that's what my kids keep hammering at  me...hahaha.  They are from the mobile generation.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,970]

Plus, laptops have a 21st century feel to it.  And desktops are now soooo passe. At least that's what my kids keep hammering at  me...hahaha.  They are from the mobile generation.

Hmmm, I doubt you'll find many here who would consider a laptop superior to a desktop. The best graphics cards will only fit in a medium-large case and a larger interior allows the CPU to be overclocked.

 

But you went into the purchase with your eyes wide open so I hope it works okay for you.

[Jimm 437]

If I may interject, yes, desktops do have a certain amount of superiority, but laptops are progressing rather well.  Consider Origin's EON series laptops, complete with desktop cpus and much more powerful gpus now.  I have the EON015X, and holds its own.  It IS far superior to the OP's laptop and to be perfectly honest, it would be a waste of time, money and effort to purchase a cheap laptop and then have to purchase another so soon, when all that cash could have been put forth to something with a little more guts.  I have accounted for the future to a point, but at least won't have to be upgrading within a year or two.  I know it's all about personal preference, but let's be honest here, any flight sim program needs power.

 

To the OP, I wish you luck and when the time comes that you need an upgrade, at least consult with those who have experience and know-how to guide you and offer the advice you need to make a well informed decision.  No offense, but you are on a fools errand currently with the laptop you have.  You may be able to run your sim, but the sim has yet to reach it's full potential with the hardware you have.

 

-Jim

[Ray Proudfoot 8,970]

The only laptop that impressed me was the Dell Alienware but at 8lbs it's not one I would want on my lap!

It runs at 3.5Ghz and can't be overclocked.

 

Doesn't matter what kids think. They haven't our experience. For FSX top performance only a desktop can give ultimate deliver.

[bofhlusr 453]

I'm beginning to wonder about the average age of the FSX user 'here'.  It seems to me we're all of the mature type.  And that probably explains the preference to desktops instead of laptops (performance issues aside). I wish the younger generation would be more interested in FSX.  For some reason my kids have no interest in FSX whatsoever despite my having shown them the cool graphics and avionics.  Maybe that will change if whoever has the rights to MS Flight Simulator X *simply* added a few add-ons (damage to scenery from missiles and bullets for example - but NOT re-engineer something similar to the very lame and deservedly unsuccessful  MS Flight of a few years ago), and, renamed FSX to MS Flight Simulator 2016.