FMS ETOPS set-up

[Dreamflight767 312]

Thanks Matt!  Do you plot them on the legs or fix pg?

[Jack C 8]

Hey Aaron, Matt. The 73 uses the smiths fms and I just started flying the 76 which uses the Pegasus. Each has its pluses and minuses. The 76 won't let us go to the navdata and build a fix based on coordinates. Goofy I know. Aaron, for the EEP and EXP you need to know your ETOPs alternate airports and place a 394 nm ring on the fix page based on these alternate airports. Don't do the "distance before" like you were describing. Now the ETP, on the 73, we go to the navdata page and create a fix called ETP1 and build it by using coordinates. THAT being said, on the 76 we do a distance before type ring but I won't get into that since it's the 76 and its kinda goofy how we do it.

Jack Colwill

[Dreamflight767 312]

Great explanation Jack.  I appreciate your time.

[Stearmandriver 2,296]

Very useful info. guys.  Thanks much but some of these responses has lead to more questions.

 

How do you do this?  When I attempt to enter LAT/LONG in the NAV DATA I get an "invalid" message.

 

 

Different operators do this differently; we plot ours in the NAV DATA like you tried. I think I remember this coming up before on here; I think it's already a known bug for PMDG... but what should happen when you enter a waypoint name on the NAV DATA page that doesn't exist in the database, is that boxes should appear for you to enter the position of your custom waypoint. This doesn't happen in the PMDG box.

 

See pic: Here I'm creating a waypoint named EEP, for "ETOPS Entry Point":

 

<img src="https://www.anony.ws/i/2016/01/13/20160112_004546.jpg" border="0">

[Dreamflight767 312]

Thank you Stear.

 

Does PMDG know about this "bug"?  The NAV DATA does seem to be the easiest way to do this.

[kevinh 409]

Thank you Stear.

 

Does PMDG know about this "bug"?  The NAV DATA does seem to be the easiest way to do this.

I'm not sure it counts as a bug as it's an FMC feature PMDG haven't simulated. However there is a way around it by creating a custom waypoint in the LEGS page. The effect is pretty much the same as adding a custom waypoint in NAV DATA except you can't name it and you don't get boxed prompts to help with the formatting..

 

Add the ETP as a custom lat/long waypoint at the dashed prompt after the last waypoint on the last LEGS page. The FMC will assign a name (WPT01, WPT02) and it will appear on the MAP while not actually being part of the current route. You can also make it a FIX so you get a range ring and an ETA.

 

The full lat/long format is

 

Nddmm.yWdddmm.z

[Stearmandriver 2,296]

Yeah that works, only issue with putting them on the Legs page is they screw up the course / distance values between waypoints, so when you do your class II nav checks of course and distance to next WP, you gotta do mental math. I avoid that when possible ;-).

 

The one time I tried an oceanic flight in the ngx, I used the Fix page, I agree that's probably best since custom WPs in Nav Data doesn't work.

[kevinh 409]

Yeah that works, only issue with putting them on the Legs page is they screw up the course / distance values between waypoints, so when you do your class II nav checks of course and distance to next WP, you gotta do mental math. I avoid that when possible ;-).

 

The one time I tried an oceanic flight in the ngx, I used the Fix page, I agree that's probably best since custom WPs in Nav Data doesn't work.

With the custom waypoint at the end of the legs unlinked to any other waypoint it doesn't interfere with distance to next waypoint as it isn't in sequence. It does appear on the map however. It's no different to creating a waypoint in NAV DATA.

[Stearmandriver 2,296]

True, if you create a disco and then enter the points, that would work. Until you wanted to add/change an approach runway, but I guess you could wait until you were out of ETOPS airspace.

[kevinh 409]

I put it right at the end of LEGS, after the arrival, runway, missed approach, etc. Pretty much where Matt said he put the NAV DATA created waypoint. So it shouldn't interfere with adding or changing approaches. I didn't need to create a disco either, it didn't connect to the preceding waypoint.

[Stearmandriver 2,296]

Must be something I'm not understanding here - if there's no disco, how does it not connect to the previous waypoint?

 

I'm guessing Matt and I are doing things similarly at work... the etops waypoints are created on the Nav Data page, and then they're not put anywhere - just displayed on the ND by using the EFIS control panel to show fixes.

 

There are no doubt lots of different ways to do this. It's a shame the PMDG box doesn't allow creating custom waypoints, but no biggie.

[Jack C 8]

Since the navdata way doesn't s work on the NGX, do it like we do in the 67. I'm not sure which flight planner you are using but if it's anything like the real world, the the navlog portion you will have a waypoint before the ETP (Assuming your flight planner builds an ETP). Let's say it goes from 41N45 to ETP1. Look at the nav log and you'll see the distance. Let's say it's about 320 nm. So in you fix page place 41N45 with a range ring of 320. When you pass that 320 range ring you hit you ETP. For the people that aren't familiar, you do NOT want the ETP on your legs page ever! One reason being is that if you have CPDLC you a cars will report to ATC you progress over ETP and ATC will go "##### is ETP?" ETP Is for the pilots purpose only. ATC doesn't care about ETP. It's just a reference waypoint for you.

Jack Colwill

[kevinh 409]

Jack,

 

With the work around I did in the NGX, adding the ETP at the very end of the LEGS page, it does not get in the current leg sequence so won't be an issue regarding position reporting.

 

==================

 

Andrew,

 

My mistake. I had misread what Matt posted earlier. He said other companies might add the ETP by hanging it on the end of the LEGS, not that he did it that way.

 

I tried this again and the ETP custom waypoint appeared with a dashed blue line from the missed approach point, not magenta but obviously connected. How can you insert a disco manually to avoid this?

[Spin737 102]

 

 

How can you insert a disco manually to avoid this?

 

At the end of the legs, after your HOLD point, put in a random fix, something that doesn't make any sense. For me, I always put AZO (Kalamazoo VOR).

 

After the AZO, put the ETP or whatever point you do want.

 

Next, delete the AZO.

 

You should end up with:

HOLD

DISCO

ETP

[kevinh 409]

At the end of the legs, after your HOLD point, put in a random fix, something that doesn't make any sense. For me, I always put AZO (Kalamazoo VOR).

 

After the AZO, put the ETP or whatever point you do want.

 

Next, delete the AZO.

 

You should end up with:

HOLD

DISCO

ETP

Thanks Matt,

 

Cheers