Loss of engines on climb

[teofilo 11]

Hi guys,

 

Good morning.

I have an issue with the Seneca V.

I takeoff using 28Hg manifold and 2500 RPM..

As soon as I cross 3000ft, both engines start losing power until they quit.
If I go below 3000ft the engines come back to life.. very strange situation.

I have been leaning the engine a bit while I climb, both fuel pumps are off on climb.

I have full fuel on the tanks so fuel is not the problem.

Any suggestion on what might be happening?

 

Teo

[carguy4471 19]

Sounds like icing.  Check to make sure you have carb heat on, or try the same climb with some summer weather and clear skies and see if it still does it.  I ran into this with a carenado malibu and if I dropped my altitude I could get the engine to come back to life in icing conditions.  For some reason the carb heat on the malibu doesn't seem to do much.

[teofilo 11]

Sounds like that might be the reason.

I am departing PAKT airport in Alaska so most likely is icing.

I have the prop antiice, pitot heater, etc but that doesn't seem to help.

Any suggestion on how to depart that airport? 

Hope you don't tell me to wait for the summer season lol..

 

Regards,
Teo

[StewartH 66]

Question:  Does Carenado actually model icing in their recent aircraft (Seneca V, Navajo, etc.)?  I know that A2A does.

[carguy4471 19]

I know that my piston malibu will experience carb icing.  I wan't really able to get it to stop.  They keyboard command for heat, H, seemed to turn on my pitot heat.  I just cleared the weather and did my flight.  Does the Seneca have cowl flaps??  You could try closing them to keep the engine temps up.  Either way I could clear the weather and try the flight to see if that is in fact the problem. 

[JWNoctis 4]

What you need is carburetor heat instead of prop or pitot heat.

 

However, Seneca V had fuel-injected engines which are supposed to be resistant to engine icing - Intake temperature drop is supposed to be much less than carb temp drop, and by definition these engines do not have carb heat.

 

This is beginning to sound like a case of problematic modeling to me, but do check weather conditions - Ice would still collect on intake filter in the right condition even on fuel-injected airplanes, collect enough and as far as I know from other similar engines, a backup unfiltered intake inside each engine nacelle would open...which means the engine should not outright lose power unless that also iced up. Something smelled off here, though I am likely wrong.

[carguy4471 19]

I know when I googled why the carenado malibu did this the same thing was mentioned.  The engine is supposed to be fuel injected and thus not experience carb icing.  It is in fact improper modeling to me.  Nonetheless, it happens on the malibu and there doesn't seem to be any sort of carb heat I can turn on.  I just don't fly it if I know there will be icing conditions, which is a bummer because I love it for flights in Alaska.  It flies slow enough to fly in the valleys and be agile.  I don't want to be doing 200kts in mountain valleys.  

[JWNoctis 4]

You're not supposed to fly if you know there will be icing conditions unless the aircraft is known ice certified in any case. Even then it's a judgement call about personal limit - as it would likely be IFR uncomfortably close to minimums - and icing strength. Not even TKS would do much against severe ice.

 

Ice and anti-ice simulation is the weak point of FSX and all current flavors of it. If there's one thing I would like to see in a new flight sim, it's frost on wiper bolt when there should be, with appropriate effects.

 

EDIT: Rephrase - just realized how accusatory some of that sounded. My apologies!

[carguy4471 19]

True, but this is a sim, and often used to test and train your skills in a safe environment.  I test mine on engine outs and differing emergency procedures.  Icing conditions is yet another example of a way you could be using a sim for training instead of actually flying a rented aircraft into known icing.  It's pretty common for instructors to simulate emergencies on the ground in a sim vs fly them in the air.  Your point is quite valid in real world flight though.  

[teofilo 11]

I will try flying that PAKT to KSEA leg today and will let you know.

I belive that could be the issue because the other day I flew PAJN to PAKT without issues and even on a cold day.

Today I departed around 3AM local time PAKT so maybe there was icing conditions above 3000 feet.

But as you guys metioned, I didn't even know icing was even simulated on FSX.

 

Regards,

Teo

[carguy4471 19]

Let us know the results.  It will likely help someone else at some point in time. 

[Bert Pieke 7,591]

I will try flying that PAKT to KSEA leg today and will let you know.

I belive that could be the issue because the other day I flew PAJN to PAKT without issues and even on a cold day.

Today I departed around 3AM local time PAKT so maybe there was icing conditions above 3000 feet.

But as you guys metioned, I didn't even know icing was even simulated on FSX.

 

Regards,

Teo

 

It is poorly implemented by Carenado...  Try Ctrl-H if this occurs - that should turn on Carb Heat.

 

If you fly this plane a lot and want this fixed permanently, send me a PM.

[teofilo 11]

ok departed at 0225Z from PAKT, did a slow climb with every antiice on and outside temp was 14c when I took off, as I climbed I reached 5000ft and established there for about 5 minutes, everything went well, then started climb to final FL190. Now I am crossing 10,000ft and everything looks good so far. 
I am getting convinced it's a temperature issue with the aircraft. Earlier in the morning I took of at 3am local time, temperatures were a lot lower so maybe that's why the engines turned off above 3000ft.