Administrator Rights for Prepar3d

[Buddy125 0]

Should you start Prepar3d v3 with administrator rights on or off.

 

Peter Smeal

[SteveW 1,792]

When we install P3D it asks for permission to elevate privileges. That's so it can install files and folders. Admins have privileges, files, folders, and the registry have access permissions.

 

When we run P3D it does not ask for permission to elevate privileges, so no, we don't need Run as Admin.

 

If we install to the default Program Files location, we can't as an ordinary user write to those program files locations. Since some addons install files there that the system must write to, and they don't have permission, we need to make sure we have permission. Many people mistakenly think they need Admin privileges to do that, we do not, that's incorrect. Instead we need to have Modify (Write) permission to those folders.

 

When we log onto Windows we become a member of the Users group. So we can select the P3D program folder with Explorer, and add the Modify permission to the Users group. That way, ordinary Users can Modify (Write) in that location.

 

If we do run one program with Admin privileges, we may need to run others as Admin too, if they control one or other in some way. Admins get privileges to system resources and registry.

 

If we create a folder on a drive that we subsequently Install programs into, then we should add the Modify permission for the Users group on that folder. This avoids future problems for Windows users access.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Should you start Prepar3d v3 with administrator rights on or off.

 

Short answer: yes. Ensure that you're running the sim as an admin, please.

[SteveW 1,792]

No chance.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

No chance.

 

I wasn't quoting you, and the original question wasn't yours. You're welcome to direct people however you please for your own software. Please do not interfere with our directions to ours, regarding our software.

[SteveW 1,792]

Beg your pardon Kyle. My "own software", doesn't need privileges, permissions, or running as admin. I'm surprised you brought something else into this that's got absolutely nothing to do with the OPs Q. I'm asked all the time, "my PC mag say's don't Run as Admin", and I repeat that's good advice.

 

Would you kindly describe why P3D should be Run as Admin?

 

...shouldn't this be on the P3D forum?

[PMDG777 231]

Beg your pardon Kyle. My "own software", doesn't need privileges, permissions, or running as admin. I'm surprised you brought something else into this that's got absolutely nothing to do with the OPs Q. I'm asked all the time, "my PC mag say's don't Run as Admin", and I repeat that's good advice.

 

Would you kindly describe why P3D should be Run as Admin?

 

...shouldn't this be on the P3D forum?

 

Remember you're in the PMDG support forums, and you're not part of the PMDG support team, your opinion is valid, but if PMDG say something, it goes. If you want to recommend something else and disagree with PMDG, do it in the P3D general forums or your own products forums.

 

Based on the complexity of PMDGs aircraft, it's almost a guarantee that their experience and knowledge with the sim is vastly greater than the vast majority of users and developers, and clearly PMDG aircraft work in such a way that admin rights are required in order for it to operate correctly, or they foresee issues arising if the sim is not run as admin. You don't know how their aircraft operate behind the scenes, only they do. They're recommending it for a reason, not just because they feel like it.

 

Take EZDOC for example. If you don't run both that addon plus the sim as admin, it loses some functionality. Just because your software works without admin privileges, does not mean that every other piece of software will. 

 

Personally, I've always run my sim as admin and always disabled UAC to avoid any issues of insufficient rights creeping in. What's easier, allowing the sim to run as admin, or modifying ownership properties of various folders?

[SteveW 1,792]

Bringing my "own software" into this, and implying my advice is to ensure my own products work properly is wrong, and unfair. My answer to the OP is based on experience of ensuring system reliability. I've got all those programs and do not need to run as admin.

 

Personally, I've always run my sim as admin and always disabled UAC to avoid any issues of insufficient rights creeping in. What's easier, allowing the sim to run as admin, or modifying ownership properties of various folders?

In several discussions some in the PMDG forums, "I'm running as admin but It still doesn't work", then go on to set permissions. Because admins have Privileges not Permissions. You failed to understand or even read my first post.

 

As it happens, my "own software" requires no special privileges, or permissions, or special folders.

 

But the OP wasn't asking about permissions. If we run as admin we are asked to press OK to elevate privileges each time we run. Do we need to do that? No. There may be some program that accesses a restricted resource, perhaps the Admin hive in the registry, that would be an error in the program. But if it was so, we would have to run as admin for that. If you read my first post you will note I said that if we do run as admin we need to ensure all programs with the sim run as admin.

 

So if you run as admin you may well find some EZDOK functions only work properly running as admin too. That's an issue of Windows security, not EZDOK.

[PMDG777 231]

Bringing my "own software" into this, and implying my advice is to ensure my own products work properly is wrong, and unfair. My answer to the OP is based on experience of ensuring system reliability. I've got all those programs and do not need to run as admin.

 

The reason Kyle brought up your software is because you said "no chance". No chance of what? This is the PMDG forums discussing support of PMDG software. You're not a PMDG developer so since when did you have any say about what PMDG customers should or shouldn't do? You have no right to shoot down PMDG support in a PMDG forum.

 

Kyle never bagged your software, all he stated was that you should provide support for YOUR SOFTWARE and leave PMDG support to provide support for THEIR SOFTWARE. Nobody is swinging sticks here. 

 

Please explain to me how not running as admin ensures system reliability? I don't see where the added reliability comes from. If anything, having everything run as admin is likely to be more reliable as everything has access to everything, there is no chance of denied permissions anywhere.

 

As I stated before and I will state again, just because YOU run these programs without admin rights, it doesn't mean everyone should. A quick run through the EZDOK forums shows that not running as admin rights is a common theme for problems. That's one example that came off the top of my head. There are millions upon millions of different combinations of software and setups just for FSX and it's addons. That's not including FSXSE or P3D. What are the chances someone is running a completely identical system to yours? Practically zero.

 

Let me just reiterate. This has nothing to do with your software. It's to do with how you're approaching the problem. You're trying to undermine PMDG in their own customer support forums. I've been around here long enough to know Kyle. He would never bash any other developers, he has a lot of respect for other developers and I'm sure the same extends to yourself, so do not assume that Kyle is in some way trying to bash your software.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Beg your pardon Kyle. My "own software", doesn't need privileges, permissions, or running as admin. I'm surprised you brought something else into this that's got absolutely nothing to do with the OPs Q.

 

 

It doesn't have anything to do with the OP's Q, but your persistence made me address you. As you're a developer, and identify yourself as such (your signature references this fact) I wanted to make it clear that I was only referring to your conduct as a developer regarding PMDG customers and PMDG software. I'm not going to go into any forum of yours and give them advice contrary to your own. You shouldn't do that here. End of discussion.

 

 

Would you kindly describe why P3D should be Run as Admin?

 

 

Because it's the simplest way to ensure that the program has the rights to modify contents around the computer. In many cases where functions were not operating correctly, we have found that running as admin fixes these issues. Users commonly run into issues where key commands are not saved after setting them. Running as admin fixes this issue.

 

Sure, there are various ways of avoiding running a program as an administrator - a different folder location, or modifying permission levels - but this is the simplest answer, and one that does not take on unnecessary risk. See below.

 

 

I'm asked all the time, "my PC mag say's don't Run as Admin", and I repeat that's good advice.

 

 

Except those articles are all explaining how various programs can be used as attack vectors for enterprise companies. All of the programs they reference are common programs that a hacker, or some other computer-based wrongdoer would have a reasonable expectation of success using as an attack vector. The last time I've heard FSX or Prepar3D used as an attack vector was...well...never. But why? There's no point. The relative number of people using FSX or P3D is a pittance compared to the number using all kinds of other programs that are more vulnerable. Even if you were a disgruntled simmer and wanted to attack some other simmer, specifically, it's more likely that you'd go after an underlying OS vulnerability than try to sneak in via some exposed part of FSX or P3D. About a year ago even Win 10 had an OS vulnerability to escalate privileges by exploiting the OS scroll bar. A scroll bar...never mind any specific program run as an admin or not...

 

So, apart from ticking off some random person with a particular interest in the sim community, the likelihood of someone specifically targeting FSX or P3D is extremely slim because it's not a widely used program, and when hacking, you have to go after commonalities (often used ports, protocols, and services/programs) in order to have the largest chance of success. In other words, you're locking down a program that has very little risk of being used as an attack vector. The ease of running a program as an admin and having it work correctly far outweighs the likelihood that it would ever be taken advantage of. 

 

Beyond all of this, you have to keep in mind that most of these articles are aimed at companies. Why? Deeper pockets and greater effect. Why would someone spend all of this time trying to hack into some random guy's computer via a program that only a handful of people use (in the grand scheme of computing, proportionally), when someone could hack into a corporation using a program that just about every corporation uses and likely get more out of it. When was the last time you saw an article that was headlined "Hacker Gains Access John Smith's Computer - Steals Pictures of Kittens"? You likely haven't. The stories you see are more of people falling victim to phishing and having their data stolen in transit. Exploits by gaining access to physical devices are largely centered on corporations, and to a lesser extent, small businesses. The number of low-profile (non-celebrity, essentially) individuals who have had their computers compromised directly (i.e. not the data transmitted, but the contents on local disk) is essentially only a handful, and I'm willing to bet most of those attacks were by known attackers, using common methods, primarily with physical access.

 

 

 

 

TL;DR:

The argument is akin to people saying "you should AES-256 for everything because it's the more secure!" Sure, yeah, it is...but how likely are you to run into someone trying to steal that particular data, versus how inconvenient is it to encrypt and decrypt all of that each and every time? There are reasons for using AES-256, sure, but most files have low risk and no need to be protected by that level of security.

 

 

 

Again - you're welcome to hold your own opinions on the matter, but do not use our forums to direct people counter to how we are directing them.

 

 

 

 

And since the OP has his question answered and this is becoming an unnecessary battle, the discussion will end here.