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scottb613

RW ILS Approaches ?

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Hi Folks,

 

Question on RW procedures - where do you want your speed when actually flying published approaches ??? I've been using 180kts or so for maneuvers with flaps up - then slow it once I intercept the localizer - drop gear - a notch of flaps - aim to be at Vapp for the intercept of the glide slope - drop the final notch of flaps once stabilized on the glide slope...

 

Thanks...

 

Regards,
Scott


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Scott,

 

You are right in the middle of the sweet spot. Flight Safety teaches initial approach speeds at 160 - 200 kts. You can pick whatever you are comfortable with, some like the low end, some the high end, and some in the middle. I think what matters is that you use the same speeds day in and day out so you won't end up getting rushed when something comes up unexpectedly (which is does at FSI about every 30 seconds)

 

For Visual Approaches FSI likes Vref + 10 kt min with Gear Down and Before Landing Checklist. I personally like Flaps 15 and Vref +20 on a 3 -4 mile final, then flaps 35 and Vref +10 for the last mile or so and Vref over the fence, with YD off and Speed brakes retracted as your final check.

 

The simulator checkride examiner uses +-5 kts and bearing +- 5 deg. They usually ask you what speed you will be using. I always picked something off the approach plate in the middle of the chart. Just a note, any speed under Vref, even a single knot will usually get the checkride termimnated. You can be a little fast, but never, ever too slow.

 

 

From the book:

For landing, ensure airspeed is at VREF at 50 feet over the threshold. Do not float the

flare. As soon as the main tires are on the ground, lower the nose, then apply maximum

toe brakes and select ground flaps.

 

Here is an ILS graphic from the FSI type rating class.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

Scott ILS.JPG

  • Upvote 1

When Pigs Fly . Ray Marshall .

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Hi Ray,

 

As always - thanks so much - ahh - should be at full flaps before starting down the glide slope... Appreciate the info - very helpful...

 

Regards,

Scott


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Hi Ray,

 

Oh yeah - I did read in the documentation - that speed brakes must be retracted before 50 feet...

 

One follow up - the real plane wasn't as draggy as the one in the sim right ??? If it were - you'd never need the speed brakes... I've never been at a point in the sim - where I needed to use the speed brakes - a simple throttle reduction is more than enough... The plane won't accelerate even at steep angles with an idle throttle... I realize it's a straight wing jet...

 

Regards,

Scott


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Excellent info Ray!

 

 

 


should be at full flaps before starting down the glide slope...

 

Without any knowledge of the Citation in particular, let me say:

 

It depends on the approach. That approach profile is a "rule of thumb" for a standard ILS approach. On the standard ILS you will typically intercept the GS at about 6nm out.

 

If the approach has you intercepting the GS much farther out, for instance in the mile 15, you wouldn't drop gear and full flaps at that point but would wait until you're closer to the runway.

 

On the other hand, if it's a steep approach with a late GS intercept, you may want to be fully configured before the GS needle starts moving.


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Hi Ray,

 

Oh yeah - I did read in the documentation - that speed brakes must be retracted before 50 feet...

 

One follow up - the real plane wasn't as draggy as the one in the sim right ??? If it were - you'd never need the speed brakes... I've never been at a point in the sim - where I needed to use the speed brakes - a simple throttle reduction is more than enough... The plane won't accelerate even at steep angles with an idle throttle... I realize it's a straight wing jet...

 

Regards,

Scott

Nope, we used the Speed Brakes all the time. Sometimes on approaches. Many times in busy places ATC can work you in when there are gaps in the approaches. With the super slow speeds of the Citations and the ability to also fly at 200 knots there is a lot of flexibility. I used to love to let ATC throw me in front of some of those Gulfstreams on 15 mile finals.

 

With the speed brakes you can make a circling approach at 180 - 200 knots, roll out level and be on altitude and on speed at the MM. That is why it is always the one of the last two things to check coming over the fence. The Yaw Damper is just for the air so it is also checked on short final.

 

Ray


When Pigs Fly . Ray Marshall .

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