Cusomter Service in FS Payware...

[KERNEL32 500]

Perhaps I am reading into this further than I should, but I am seeing this more and more and feel a bit alarmed at what I read from time to time. I know in most cases forums can be hard to decipher as far as facial expressions and tone of voice, but by reading the post I saw below I get a REAL NEGATIVE feeling from this particular vendor.THIS IS A FLIGHT SIMULATOR PAYWARE ADD ON VENDOR REPRESENTATIVE, AND THE PERSON WHO POSTED IS AN ASSIGNED MODERATOR OF THE FORUM(S). FOR OBVIOUS REASONS I AM NOT GOING TO SAY WHO OR WHAT COMPANY THIS IS BUT IT'S A "BIG COMPANY" AS FAR AS THE FLIGHT SIM BUSINESS GOES...QUOTE:-----------------------------------No! It will be announced when it is ready.No announcements will be made until it is tested and ready for release!No date will be announced until it is ready!So generally it will be ready when it is ready!I think that covers all other questions, this post is now locked....SMILY FACE ICON HERE------------------------------------END QUOTEI have been in retail for a long time now and currently manage the department I work in. If I were to take this tone with a customer that walked in off the street I don't think they would come back OR stay very long! (NOTE: Especially the last 2 lines of the comment above)I know software is different, and I also know flight sim payware is a unique market, but does that give these vendors authority to treat us customers this way?I say no friggin' way! At least word the reply differently and be more polite about it. It's not like the original question was put this way. Perhaps "Please see the sticky post I have about this here ->>>" and post a link to the topic?Maybe the management of this vendor needs to monitor what their moderators are saying in their forums becuase this could have a long term ill affect on their company.

[Guest shanwick]

Maybe the vendor and, or, their representative thought they would behave in the same way as some members of the public do towards them. How often do we hear and read of utter rudeness towards developers?And as for the being ready when it's ready bit - well, I don't altogether blame them. Today's culture often results in all sorts of impoliteness, to put it politely, if the developer is one hour overdue with their release.I say "What's good for the goose is good for the gander".David

[Guest]

Sadly such bluntness is often needed.Many of the punters here (and on other forums) are extremely hard of hearing and apparently incapable of recognising gentle hints.After repeating the same thing ("you'll know when it's ready") a thousand times over a few weeks I can fully understand why someone gets a tad iffy.There's nothing rude in those statements, they only state clear facts which have been made clear many times before yet people continue to whine about wanting a release date for products.

[Guest JIMJAM]

Another thing that gets my blood boiling is why some of them allow their customers to be ripped apart and ridiculed in their forums. Thats their bread and butter and I would toss them out in a heartbeat.Somebody will post a basic question for example, Wheres the GPS or I cannot figure out how to use the autopilot. Some of the resident skygods will attack the guy and people will generally get beat up and discouraged for asking questions.I remember I had the nerve to complain that the LDS 767 was not capable of time acc over 4x. A real biggie for me considering I do not have 4 hours to do a flight. I was ripped apart,flamed and made to feel like a real jerk. Comment like "you should have bought a playstation instead" and "real pilots dont accelerate".I see this happen at alot of forums and why they put up with such hostile behavior towards their customers is beyond me.

[aerdt 0]

I'd lose my cool as well, if every other thread is about "When will it be released?", "I can't wait anymore" and "Give us a date".How is this customer rep treating you badly? It is a simple statement then "when it's ready, it's ready". I don't have a problem with it. This practise is also the same for all major game releases, if you look around the various game forums.As far as I am concerned, if I was in the this developers shoes, I'd not even respond to questions about a release date, because any posting from the developer will result in yet another bunch of responses asking and speculating about the same thing.I think it is rude and childish to push the developers to rush out a product or announce a release date. When it's ready, it's ready. So simple is that.The community in here is generally nice, polite and helpful - however, there will be always some sour grapes believe strongly in what they believe and voice their (usually negative) comments loudly and persistantly.

[Bruce 0]

the problem is not so much that it is not ready, it is more that people where told it would be ready on a certain day and money was paid days before on the strenght of this statment.If money had not changed hands, and the project was still delayed the "are we there yet" posts would be unreasonable. People are in no doubt the wait is not on perpoise and unaviodable but a little more inforation wuld help, that way they wold know better what they have paint for.In the past i have paid money up front for an addon with promise of the addition of a VC a little later, it never came. I am not sayng that all payware companiies would do this, but you can understand why people get a little miffed. to say it will be finnished when it is finished is not what people want to hear; what would be better would be state at the start of the day that we have such and such to do.It would even be better to say "it will not be read today" then people woulf not keep chaecking all the time in the hope it was, then if it was finished before expectations it woud be a great supprise that would do no harm at all.:)

[MD83 1]

I understand the original poster's point of view. This must be the only "community" that allows commercial vendors to say negative things to their customers. This is very unprofessional. Picture this: somebody goes to a check-in desk and starts cussing. You can be sure that the airport staff will behave PROFESSIONALLY! They won't resort to insults and "slights", but some FS vendors do! ;) FS vendors are the ONLY commercial entity that can lose their temper with customers AND retain their reputation ..... this is quite sick!The FS community has become a Piranha Club. Many people on the various forums are contentious. 15,000 people can download your freeware and you will only get 1 compliment ..... it was very different a few years ago!

[yellow5 0]

>As far as I am concerned, if I was in the this developers>shoes, I'd not even respond to questions about a release date,>because any posting from the developer will result in yet>another bunch of responses asking and speculating about the>same thing.Then the potential customer goes out and starts flaming the developer for not responding. It is a no win situation. If I were the developer, I would not offer people the opportunity to pre-pay for something that doesn't exist yet, nor would I say much if not anything at all about new releases. Gamers (I speak in general, there are always exceptions to the rule) are very excitable when it comes to new releases. When it comes to a new release they (in general again) are like kids when it is close to Christmas time. They are not able to sleep at night in the great anticipation of the big day. I often wonder the age of the person who posts the question, "...when will it be released? Huh, Huh, when is it going to be released? I can't wait! It think I will explode if it is not released soon..." :DKevin

[aerdt 0]

I used to be impatient like that. Not anymore - it maybe comes with age. Actually, the anticipation is part of the fun right now. I can relate that people anticipate a release, but losing some sleep over it? Nah.Just take a look at a previous thread. The developer spends hours, days, weeks working on a project, tried to accomodate the drooling crowd by posting a screenshot and subsequently gets ripped apart with comments like because he didn't turn on AA for his render.

[Guest SaVas]

I too agree with that payware company's mentality of "its ready when its ready"Being an 'addict' of payware addons myself, I cant fathom a guess of how many impatient and obnoxious people there are out there that consistently ask "when will xxx be released?" "is there an ETA?" "Why hasnt xxxxxx been released yet? its been a month since we heard anything", "any updates?" and other drivel.There is nothing wrong with wanting something badly, but patience is a good thing. I have never posted on a forum asking such insignificant and useless questions, and figure that the developer will release it when they feel it is ready. Some like Alphasim used to post screenshots of upcoming releases to tempt the wouldbe buyers, but they stopped that because of the incessant ramblings of the whereisit crowd, which is a shame for people like me who enjoyed seeing a projeect's progress.So whomever the Payware co. is that has that blunt answer, I tip my hat to them, but fear even with such statements, the blind will not see it.

[Guest bonjourmoi44]

I would have to agree it is a maturity issue here. An example would be kids leading up to Christmas. They have a desire to find the hidden presents in order to get a look at what is coming. Or a road trip, "are we there yet, are we there yet, are we there yet????" Don't get me wrong, I love Christmas and many times I want to be there already when driving on a long trip. However, sometimes we need to look at the scenery passing by and enjoy what we have and let vendors make a quality product so when it is released it is up to par and not full of problems (inevitably there are always problems, but with more work done before a release, hopefully there will be less). For those who purchase a product before it is even released I really have no sympathy as anyone who knows anything about the FS community, products are rarely released when a release date is given. I understand the desire to pre-order a product, but I also do not see the point. It will be released when it is released, whether or not I have pre-ordered. In many cases a publisher will set the date of a release when the developer is the one who actually will release the product at there own date. My advice would be to do a little research on any product before pre-ordering. See who is the publisher, and who is the developer. If there are conflicting ideas on a release date, go with the developer as they will be the ones actually setting the CORRECT date. In the meantime, enjoy the scenery around you. Have fun with the vast majority of products out there and wait until great things come. Hounding developers will only delay things further as they must stop their work to moderate forums. Relax.

[Guest sbdwag]

I too agree with that payware company's mentality of "its ready when its ready"Bull!Its all about hype. The payware companys are the reason people complain.If a few of the payware companys were so concerned about all of the above they would simple either keep there buisness quite and announce when it was truly ready. Or they would honestly keep their potential customers informed of the progress as a few do now.They have no one to blame but themselves if it gets to hot in the kitchen because they are the ones that turned the flame up.RegardsDennis Waggoner

[Guest IanP]

Having worked for three large developers as a beta tester, I can tell you for a fact that the "are we there yet?" threads are just plain annoying when you are working your socks off trying to get a product out of the door. The main problem is that when a developer is working, they don't have time to monitor forums 24/7, which is what some people want.Whenever I beta test, I always say the same thing to the test lead - DO NOT give a release date until you KNOW you are going to hit it.Of course, they normally ignore this, but in the past, yes, I have sat there hitting refresh every ten seconds waiting for a product to be released. When I actually found out what is going on that I couldn't see, I stopped doing it. It'll be ready when it is ready. That's a truism at any time and, if the deadline becomes more important than the product, what happens? You get particularly vocal people - most of whom haven't bought the product - screaming that the developer should refund everyone who bought it for releasing such a shoddy piece of work.I don't know - or care - who the developer is in this case, but have every sympathy for both sides. All I'd ask is that people think about what the developer is trying to do and sit back and relax comfortably instead of getting wound up. ;-)Cheers,Ian P.

[Guest SaVas]

>I too agree with that payware company's mentality of "its>ready when its ready">>Bull!>>Regards>Dennis WaggonerActually Dennis, its not "BULL!" as I DO agree with the its ready when its ready mentality.

[1mikel151 71]

I can see both sides. I work in retail management and see both sides daily. I agree that developers bring it on themselves by giving out any info on the product, they should all just keep quiet till it's ready to be released. I can't recall how many forums I have been to after a payware developer announced a new product and all the "when will it be released", "what features will it have" etc posts, get a life!!On the other hand, if I was a payware developer for FS and got this on the forums I'd have an attitude also.But I agree, some are just being rude and having a harsh tne because they feel they can because it is a niche market. I can think of 2 payware products I will never buy or buy from just because of the developers holyier than thou attitude.Regards, MichaelKDFWhttp://www.calvirair.com/mcpics/mcdcvabanner.jpgCalVirAir International