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sq024

Some observations

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Hi Dave,

 

I have some observations you might want to look into. They could be related to my previous report about double entries in the airways-list.

 

Version is 2.0.1.5 and cycle is 1609.

 

Route: ENZV rw36 RUMO1H RUMOG DCT MITSI DCT AMADA UZ705 PAM UP62 TEBRO TEBR1G EDDL rw23R

 

1. After entering ENZV, EDDL and the SID the next waypoint is a direct to MITSI

- I can add MITSI via the map ('add to flightplan')

- I can add MITSI via the Wp+-button

- I cann't add MITSI via the waypoint option 'Insert After' on RUMOG.

2. On waypoint AMADA I select the airway UZ705 to PAM. The leg is added but without the in between waypoint MOKUM. It works if I first add UZ705 to MOKUM and then on MOKUM UZ705 to PAM.

3. At EDDL the active runway is 23L in P2A but that is a Departure runway so I select as STAR 23R TEBR1G.

- I get an error-message that the flightplan should have a Cruise Altitude and Planned Ground Speed. I'm pretty sure I would get that message in previous versions only after hitting the Validate-button.

- After adding FL and GS I try again rw23R TEBR1G, the STAR is added but still with rw23L

- I unload the STAR and select only the ILS approach on 23R with transition TEB23. Now I get rw23R assigned in the plan. Does this mean that if the last waypoint in the flightplan is also a transition in the approach you don't select a STAR or should I be able to select the STAR on rw23R and get rw23R as the active landing runway. Just not sure what the procedure is.

 

Overall no serious bugs because there is an easy way around it.

 

Regards,

 

Rob

 

P.S. Just noticed that after step 2 in point 3 I can select an ILS-approach on rw23R transition BOT so no issue. Remains my question about direct an approach or first a STAR,

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Rob,

Thanks for the detailed report.

1) I found and fixed a bug that was preventing the addition of MITSI using the "Insert After" method.  As long as the waypoint selected is the last one in a SID you will be able to Insert After.  Also, if it is the first one in a STAR, you will be able to Insert Before.

2) I also found a bug that was causing this.  It should be fixed in the next update.

3a) I fixed the issue of the Cruise Altitude and Ground Speed error message.  It will only be shown when you press the Validate or File buttons.  

3 b,c) On the Runway selection for STARs and Approaches, Pilot2ATC tries to determine from the SIM if a runway is designated as Departure/Arrival, but in most cases, this does not work and the "Recommended" Runway is determined primarily based on wind speed/direction.  So if you want to land on RW23R, you will need to select that runway for both the STAR and Approach.

 

Thanks again for the report.

Dave

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Did you have any issue with TOD? During my 2 flights today on the first flight TOD never got active and on the 2nd flight it was around 15nm past TOD I got the new altitude.

I dont wanna hijack the thread, just asking you as you seemed to be testing the new version like myself.

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What flight plan were you flying when you didn't get the descent?  What were your settings on the FltPln tab of config?

 

I can try testing to see if I can reproduce.

 

Dave

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Did you have any issue with TOD? During my 2 flights today on the first flight TOD never got active and on the 2nd flight it was around 15nm past TOD I got the new altitude.

I dont wanna hijack the thread, just asking you as you seemed to be testing the new version like myself.

Hi,

 

I'm not always getting a new FL on TOD but as I get the instruction to fly the assigned STAR I request a decent to the next altitude. Something else I have experienced in that case is that later in the descent  TOD shows up as the next waypoint where it is not in the flightplan. As soon as I have an example I'll post a report for Dave.

 

Rob

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Hi Rob,

 

the TOD in the flightplan section is only a first rough calculation for your orientation, especially if P2A automatically assigns STAR or/and APPR or gives vectors to final (depending on your config settings). Consequently you can completely ignore the line "next waypoint: TOD" in communication area. It's also only for orientation.

 

P2A internally calculates the descent regardless of that filed "TOD" and will instruct you to descend right in time according to your flightplan settings (GS/VS) AND to the published altitude restrictions e.g. at the STAR entrypoint (upper and lower limit).

Normally no need to ask for a lower FL to initiate the descent by your own.

 

On the other hand be attentive that there are different clearance phraseologies for the STAR. The instruction "cleared via [sTAR-identifier] ..." clears you only to fly the STAR route on your current FL and you need separate descent instructions. The opposite clearance is to "descend via [sTAR-identifier] ...". This instruction clears you to fly and to descend by your own via the STAR published altitude restrictions in the same manner like the ILS approach clearance also includes the descent to the published altitude at the FAF (ILS final approach fix) to intercept the glide.

 

Helge

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On the other hand be attentive that there are different clearance phraseologies for the STAR. The instruction "cleared via [sTAR-identifier] ..." clears you only to fly the STAR route on your current FL and you need separate descent instructions. The opposite clearance is to "descend via [sTAR-identifier] ...". This instruction clears you to fly and to descend by your own via the STAR published altitude restrictions in the same manner like the ILS approach clearance also includes the descent to the published altitude at the FAF (ILS final approach fix) to intercept the glide.

 

Thanks Helge, very helpful info. Still I think something is wrong with the TOD calculation represented in the P2A screen but will make a seperate report for that.

 

Rob

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Rob,

Helge is correct.  For everyone's benefit, here is how TOD and the flight plans work.

 

When you first Validate or File a flight plan, a TOD is calculated based on what you have in that flight plan.  No consideration is given to what you might request or be assigned in flight.  If you don't change the flight plan yourself, it will remain the same throughout the flight.

 

The "GPS" flight plan is the one you see on the screen and can change.  There is a separate "ATC" flight plan that ATC uses and maintains based on ATC assignments and clearances.  It will not be the same as the GPS flight plan in most cases, except for when you first begin the flight, unless you have unchecked all the options for ATC to make assignments. 

 

When ATC gives you an expected SID,STAR and/or Approach, P2A recalculates the ATC flight plan and a new TOD.  You don't see this on the map or GPS flight plan unless you modify the flight plan and press the Validate button.  (DO NOT PRESS THE FILE Button,  this will mess up the ATC Flight Plan as P2A will assume you are filing a new flight plan in flight and replace the ATC flight plan with your newly filed GPS flight plan.)

 

If TOD occurs prior to the first STAR waypoint, you should get a stepped descent and be told to "fly the xxxx Arrival", meaning you should wait for descent instructions from the controller and are only cleared to fly the lateral track of the arrival.  If the first STAR waypoint comes first, you will be told to "descend via the xxxx Arrival", meaning you should plan your own descent to comply with the altitude restrictions in the STAR.  No descent instructions will be give.  If you have entered the planned altitudes from the GPS flight plan into your FMS, you can probably use VNAV function of the autopilot to hit the altitudes correctly.  But it's up to you to comply with the restrictions.  

 

Hope this helps clarify

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Thanks David,

 

This helped me a lot. My next flight was flawless with P2A assigning my SID, STAR and Approach. Altitude assignments were aligning to STAR-entrypoint and altitude restrictions in the STAR.

 

Rob

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