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CaptainAirhook

ATC does not assign STAR

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Hi there,

 

3 years ago I tried the trial-Version of VoxATC and it was kind of too complicated for me. Yesterday I gave it a new try and this time I studied the manuals before :-). I configured the Flight Plan Extras and unchecked the "No Vectors To Approach" so the atc will assign a STAR anyway (?). But now when I pass the last waypoints of my route, there is no atc reaction, means no STAR assignment and I have to fly "blind" because there is no further information by the atc. When I check the vector checkbox I always get vectors and never STARs.

 

Do you know what could be wrong? Before I buy, this must work somehow.

 

My flightplan from KSAN to KPHX I load into fsx / voxatc:

PGY DCT IPL J18 BZA J2 HOGGZ DCT HYDRR

(STAR should be in this case HYDRR1 I guess)

 

Thank you for your help. Would love to buy and use this nice piece of software.

 

Greetings

Mike

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HYDRR is the final waypoint of that star. if you want a star assigned, you have to end your flightplan with one of the transitions into the star, not at the end. in this case you already had it with HOGGZ.

 

by adding that extra waypoint at the end, you are telling it that you want to fly direct from HOGGZ to HYDRR instead of saying that you to fly the star. just remove that last waypoint and end your flightplan on HOGGZ (or BLH, or SALOM for example would also work)

 

the "no vectors" box should be checked if you intend to fly the star all the way, otherwise it will give vectors once you reach around 30nm from the airport no matter what. unfortunately this will override getting vectors from STARS that are supposed to end in vectors so it's a mixed bag but i don't think any of the other ATC packages really handle this case properly either. :/

 

cheers

-andy crosby

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I believe you have to download Navigraph FMS Data and from there you are able to purchase the FMS. If I am correct it isn't too expensive $4.00 or so.  Then I believe you have to go into the VOX setting and choose where you installed the NAvigraph data so it is able to communicate with Sids and Stars.  I just re installed VOX ATC as I wasn't using if for quite sometime but I do remember I had to go thru that process.

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Thank you so much for your help. Pretty sure I messed up with STAR / Transition. I will try again with a modified flightplan. So IPL was correct because the transition comes afterwards the SID?

 

Could you give me some advice how to use data in general correctly from sites like flightaware in relation with voxATC? 

 

For example there is the following route on flightaware:

(KLAS) - BOACH6 - HEC - RIIVR3 - (KLAX)

 

So I just have to pass HEC to the applications and voxATC will automatically provide me with the correct SID Transition STAR ? In real life a transition is only necessary with lots of traffic, isn't it?

 

Thank you anyway

 

Greetings

Mike

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Thank you so much for your help. Pretty sure I messed up with STAR / Transition. I will try again with a modified flightplan. So IPL was correct because the transition comes afterwards the SID?

 

Could you give me some advice how to use data in general correctly from sites like flightaware in relation with voxATC? 

 

For example there is the following route on flightaware:

(KLAS) - BOACH6 - HEC - RIIVR3 - (KLAX)

 

So I just have to pass HEC to the applications and voxATC will automatically provide me with the correct SID Transition STAR ? In real life a transition is only necessary with lots of traffic, isn't it?

 

 

1. yeah i think if you just file IPL it will give you the border7 or poggi5 . i don't think it will complain if the PGY is in there, in fact if you file some or all the points of a sid or a star i think it assumes you want to force it to choose that one, it's been a while so i can't say 100% i recall how that behaves.

 

2. yeah i think if your flightplan is just HEC then it should pick the sid and star as appropriate to the winds which would most likely match the common ones shown in flightaware.

 

3. i can't speak authoritatively about real life, but it's many factors that influence what you would get, not just traffic but also the way the control normally works there, weather, types of approaches, etc. also consider that it varies between usa and europe and elsewhere in terms of what is more common. for example usa flightplans frequently file the expected star where in europe they don't, partly because in europe stars tend to map much more to the transitions on a one-to-one basis so only the transition is filed .. it's a pretty complicated topic and i am just a novice also

 

4. i should mention that retirednavy is correct that you do need navdata for the sid/star stuff to be fully working and ideally you'd have the same cycle as you're using for your planes.., i'm not sure if voxatc ships with an old cycle of the data or not, i can't remember, if it doesn't seem to be fully using that stuff correctly that could be part of the issue.

 

 

cheers

-andy crosby

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Mike

 

I'd be very careful about purchasing VoxATC.  It's been well over a year since it has been updated and the developer is numbered among the missing.  I fear that VoxATC is abandonware.

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Thank you for your replies. What offline ATC would you recommend? What I like about voxATC is, that the traffic is also managed by voxATC itself and there are no FSX atc conflicts.

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Thank you for your replies. What offline ATC would you recommend? What I like about voxATC is, that the traffic is also managed by voxATC itself and there are no FSX atc conflicts.

 

the traffic management is indeed one of it's unique features that no other ATC really does.

 

i would agree with tom, it might be worth waiting a bit to see what shakes out with the dev. there has been some talk that there is a new version7 in beta but i haven't seen any official word about it.

 

i have personally been using pro-atc/x for a lot of my flights lately. but it has its own set of idiosyncrasies and is in a similar dev situation where they are pretty tight-lipped about any fixes or updates and they are extremely infrequent. as far as i know, besides VOX it is the only other package that supports dynamic assignment of sid/stars. it also has weaknesses related to vectoring and the voices are pretty uneven. although there is a user who has spearheaded efforts for improving voices it will still be a while before there is a wide variety.

 

pfe3 has a wide array of voices and seems fairly polished. but for sid/stars you load the waypoints and setup the altitude restrictions by hand before the flight. i also found it somewhat difficult to use. instead of menus is has a huge array of hotkeys (so many that there is also a companion app just for showing you what keys to press depending on the situation.) i think with practice that's probably not a deal breaker. i have only used the demo so far, so i cannot comment exhaustively about it, i feel like i need to spend more time with it before i can fully judge it.

 

radar contact is very polished and solid but pretty much ignores sid/stars completely, you basically tell the controller you want to fly a procedure and it lets you do it, there is no actual tracking of if you are actually flying the procedure though, and similarly it doesn't take the altitude restrictions into account or anything. i like that it has failure states if you set your transponder incorrectly or don't follow directions closely enough which doesn't seem to really be something other packages do. 

 

pilot2atc looks promising as it seems to be under very active development. but it also seems limited by only working with sid/stars that you directly add to your flight plan rather than treating them as actual parts of the control scheme. seems like it might be very good for vfr or ifr general aviation but i haven't tried it yet so i cannot comment about it very much either.

 

it is somewhat unfortunate that nobody has really fully nailed the atc solution yet

 

cheers

-andy crosby

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hey Andy, thank you so much for this survey. I only have experience with pro-atc/x but I don't like the real radio voices with no relation to the actual situation. This is just an atmosphere thing.

I didn't know that these two apps were actually the only ones that can manage SID / STAR themselves. So it's pretty clear that I have to go for voxATC.

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but it also seems limited by only working with sid/stars that you directly add to your flight plan rather than treating them as actual parts of the control scheme. seems like it might be very good for vfr or ifr general aviation but i haven't tried it yet so i cannot comment about it very much either.

 

Pilot2ATC assigns SIDS\STARS on the fly like VOX. As of right now it does not interact with AI Traffic. Hopefully, down the road it will. It is under constant development and the developer is very active in the forum.

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Pilot2ATC assigns SIDS\STARS on the fly like VOX. As of right now it does not interact with AI Traffic. Hopefully, down the road it will. It is under constant development and the developer is very active in the forum.

 

ah, that is interesting to hear. they should update their webpage because the FAQ seems to indicate that it just pulls the waypoints from the flightplan:

 

"Does the product read any navdata with regards to SIDS, STARS and altitude restrictions?

Pilot2ATC relies on your flight plan for altitude and nav info. You can import flight plans from pln or fms files from many planning sources or from FSX, P3D or X-Plane directly. If using SIDS and STARS, just import the same flight plan you are using to load your FMS and you'll be good to go."

 

i would agree that right now it seems to have a lot of potential, an active dev is very nice to see :)

 

cheers

-andy crosby

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hey Andy, thank you so much for this survey. I only have experience with pro-atc/x but I don't like the real radio voices with no relation to the actual situation. This is just an atmosphere thing.

 

I didn't know that these two apps were actually the only ones that can manage SID / STAR themselves. So it's pretty clear that I have to go for voxATC.

Go for VoxAtc Mike, you will not regret it...Yes the developper seems no longer to give answersBut the program is already working well and I never had to make claims. Of course there are some glitches from time to time (nothing serious). Generally all is well.

 

Pilot2Atc is very promising and already works well (I got it), Dave, the developper reacts and corrects very fastly any "glitches" you find, great support there !

 

VoxAtc currently has some features that others do not. You can actually fly gate to gate in the literal sense. In addition, it handles pretty well traffic, Sids, Stars and so....

 

I have Pf3 too. For now I wait to see the next update. About Sids, Stars in this program, you must declare the beginning and the end of the procedure before the flight. But during the procedure you are left on your own while VoxAtc checks altitude, heading and so... In Pf3 during cruise if your Ifr flight level is for example FL230 or any, you can fly at any altitude deviation, it don't care. I have already mentioned this problem from day one but at this time the feature does not appear implemented. For this reason I expect to see the next update. Btw, Atc voices in Pf3 are very good and I have sometimes some pleasure to fly with it...But finally I return fastly to Vox or P2Atc. Just my 2cents.

 

Regards,

 

Richard Portier

Edit : Last but not least VoxAtc is the only program which permit to save and reload a flight anytime, anywhere. No way with the other programs !

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the traffic management is indeed one of it's unique features that no other ATC really does.

 

i would agree with tom, it might be worth waiting a bit to see what shakes out with the dev. there has been some talk that there is a new version7 in beta but i haven't seen any official word about it.

 

i have personally been using pro-atc/x for a lot of my flights lately. but it has its own set of idiosyncrasies and is in a similar dev situation where they are pretty tight-lipped about any fixes or updates and they are extremely infrequent. as far as i know, besides VOX it is the only other package that supports dynamic assignment of sid/stars. it also has weaknesses related to vectoring and the voices are pretty uneven. although there is a user who has spearheaded efforts for improving voices it will still be a while before there is a wide variety.

 

pfe3 has a wide array of voices and seems fairly polished. but for sid/stars you load the waypoints and setup the altitude restrictions by hand before the flight. i also found it somewhat difficult to use. instead of menus is has a huge array of hotkeys (so many that there is also a companion app just for showing you what keys to press depending on the situation.) i think with practice that's probably not a deal breaker. i have only used the demo so far, so i cannot comment exhaustively about it, i feel like i need to spend more time with it before i can fully judge it.

 

radar contact is very polished and solid but pretty much ignores sid/stars completely, you basically tell the controller you want to fly a procedure and it lets you do it, there is no actual tracking of if you are actually flying the procedure though, and similarly it doesn't take the altitude restrictions into account or anything. i like that it has failure states if you set your transponder incorrectly or don't follow directions closely enough which doesn't seem to really be something other packages do. 

 

pilot2atc looks promising as it seems to be under very active development. but it also seems limited by only working with sid/stars that you directly add to your flight plan rather than treating them as actual parts of the control scheme. seems like it might be very good for vfr or ifr general aviation but i haven't tried it yet so i cannot comment about it very much either.

 

it is somewhat unfortunate that nobody has really fully nailed the atc solution yet

 

cheers

-andy crosby

Andy,

 

Concerning Pf3 instead use the system key you can command Pf3 via Mce voices. Works pretty well.

 

"it is somewhat unfortunate that nobody has really fully nailed the atc solution yet"

Probably not so simple but seems imo VoxAtc at this time done the job. Anyway give a try to P2Atc.

 

The ideal would be to have a mix of all existing addons...An other story... :smile:

 

Regards,

 

Richard Portier

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