better jet from Eaglesoft?

[Guest]

Jennifer,If you enjoy the II you might enjoy the X. It is a different feel being a totally glass display cockpit, but it is really awesome! If they sharpened the panels and added a few more features I'd buy the II and the X all over again

[Guest OneTinSoldier]

>Unfortunately, I have to say all ESD private jets are really>cheap (not talking about money of course) compared to most>payware products. I can't say any EDS private jet is much>better than what the default Lear with RXP gauges is. I wish>they had developed those jets at 1/2 the quality their Cirrus>is, which BTW is one of the best addons available.>>If you want good products, try:>>Aeroworx King Air distributed by Flight1>Pilatus PC12 from F1>Cirrus from Eaglesoft>TBM700 free at Avsim>A lot of other good F1 GA ACs.>>Unfortunately there are no great private jets (other than the>Ariane BBJ) to put money on, that's why I ended up always>using turboprops for my private flights.>>LeoSorry but I have to completely disagree. My Citation X(my fav ESDG aircraft so far) AND my Hawker 400XP blows default aircraft(even with RXP gauges added to them) out of the sky. The panels are much better, especially when it comes to the VC's, not to mention ESDG virtual cabins which are top notch. Even if you add RXP gauges to default aircraft, you still have to look at a number of those terribly old and ugly default gauges and panel bitmaps, which the RXP gauges look totally out of place on/with. It's a no-brainer. Default models!? Bah. The expection in comparing some of the default models might be a couple of newer ones included for Century of Flight, such as the Lockheed Vega and DH Comet which are really good, and the gauges for those two aircrafts are pretty nice too. I try to give credit where credit is due. ;) The ESDG Cit X model is certainly outstanding, as are all other ESDG models. And how about flight dynamics? You want to compare default flight dynamics to flight dynamics done by Rob Young!?!!?? (which ESD aircraft have) OMG! Sorry, but I don't even have any idea what planet your on when it comes to that comparison. There's no doubt in my mind, and I believe many others, that the ESDG aircrafts are much better than defaults all the way around, regardless of whether you add any RXP gauges to defaults or not. Your entitled to you opinion though and your $100 Ariane payware with more $$ for liveries if that's what you like.Regards,Jim Richards

[1mikel151 71]

"The CX is my personal favorite:-)"I'd say you are a tad bit biased Ron! LOLI'll chime in, Citation X all the way! Visually it's outstanding and has options to run on any system. It's only cheap if you have extremely high, unrealistic expectations from a sim model.Regards, MichaelKDFWhttp://www.calvirair.com/mcpics/mcdcvabanner.jpgCalVirAir International

[N400QW 205]

"Don't expect PMDG type quality though"Or PMDG pricing either:-):-)

[Guest lalo lolo1]

Lol,Guys, I have a many payware aircrafts, and the ESDG ones are the worst. Just a few words explaining why I think they are bad.1. Buy and install RXP JL4, check how your default Lear looks and let me know how many default gauges do you find. Answer, almost none. The moving map is ages better than the ESDG ones.2. Get any PSS Airbus, and if you don't like the model just merge them with any of the great freeware we have available. They cost about a half of what the ESDG ACs, and the panel, is a complete panel, with a fully functional FMC.3. Oh, yeah, the models of ESDG are awesome. But they are totally FR killers. try the Socata TMB700 from Avsim. It's free, it has almost 0 impact on FPS and the model is as good as any ESDG one (or even better).4. Get the ESDG Cirrus and you'll see the jets are not a 1/4 quality compared to it.5. Get the Aeroworx King Air. It also needs the same stuff the ESDG ACs need (A decent EFIS + a good navigation device such as the GNS 430 or 530, both well provided by RXP), but the quality of the model, external, internal, 2d panel is totally superior to any ESDG jet.6. Get the Beneaviones CII + Leon Seale's CII panel (both free at Avsim). Let me know if a virtual cockpit and/or cabin is worth the price of the CII, because the 2d panel for sure doesn't.So, let's go to the question, how I'd like the ESDG jets to be?a. Fully functional FMC totally integrated with the moving map.b. Easier on FR.c. Nicer 2d panel. A photorealistic wouldn't be bad, but also a better looking panel and gauges would be nice. Just compare the gauges to PMDG, LDS or PSS. They are poor!Except for b. I think the other two points make them cheap payware stuff.I wouldn't mind if the price was a double of what it is, as long as the product was perfect.Just my two cents, but I encourage anyone aiming for these ESDG jets to go for something else, being either the ESDG Cirrus, or any of the great F1 GA ACs.Leo

[aerdt 0]

There are always some people who don't like a particular product and some who seem to enjoy it tremendously. In my opinion, Eaglesoft has done a great job with all of their products. They might not have the latest frills and require an hour before you can fly them, but that doesn't make them less fun.There are four leagues for add-on aircraft - each one caters to different groups.1. Ultra-realistic: PMDG, Level-D, FeelThere, Eaglesoft Cirrus SR202. Realistic: Eaglesoft Jets, PSS Airbus series/Dash 8, PMDG B1900x3. Simple: Abacus, Aerosoft4. FreewareSome people like to do long-haul and sit 10 hours staring on the screen floowing the purple line. Some people love to program FMCs. Some people swear by flying GA. You cannot compare the individual experiences of flight simmers and, quite frankly, it is boring to compare every add-on to PMDG and Level-D.Thank God, we're all different.Cheers.

[N400QW 205]

Hmm, using our own user feedback, you are out numbered by about 9 to 1.You are welcome to your opinion of course, just realize that you do not speak from a majority position.:-)This thread was created by a user asking the question on which of our jets is better, NOT for your own personal review. Here you have mentioned any number of products not related to the original question.Please try to stay on topic.:-)

[n4gix 4,947]

>6. Get the Beneaviones CII + Leon Seale's CII panel (both free>at Avsim). Let me know if a virtual cockpit and/or cabin is>worth the price of the CII, because the 2d panel for sure>doesn't.Apples and oranges... One man's Rembrandt is another man's Piccaso...The ESDG CII is intended as a 100% faithful reproduction of an actual aircraft's panel, not one individual's impressionist rendition of a completely imaginary panel... ;)

[Dillon 2,197]

Hey Pat I can't understand this anti-Eaglesoft stance that

[Dillon 2,197]

Bill you guys did a great job... :-)

[Guest jennifer]

Bigal wrote: "...If you enjoy the II you might enjoy the X. It is a different feel being a totally glass display cockpit, but it is really awesome! If they sharpened the panels and added a few more features I'd buy the II and the X all over again..."Thanks for the recommendation Al. I might well take your advice. Mind you, what I particularly like on the CII are the steam guages and tapes and no FMC. Still, all the ESDG Citations look good to me;-)

[zfehr 1]

Les... I couldn't have said it any better than you just did. The Eaglesoft group has given me endless hours of enjoyment with all of their aircraft... yes, I've got all of them and think each one is a wonderful simulation of the real aircraft. The VC's are top notch, I had the Jetline gauges in some of the panels and actually went back to the Eaglesoft EFIS's cause they are a better representation of the actual cockpit. As to my favorite Eaglesoft corporate jet, probably the Citation II for me, just like the way it works the best for my tastes.

[Guest OneTinSoldier]

Pretty well put Patrick.Ron, some of this may be a little off topic, but that's the way threads go sometimes. Personally I think it's allright as long as it's ok with the mods. The posts are still about ESDG aircrafts and I wouldn't mind making a rebuttal even if it's off the 'specific' original topic.>Lol,>>Guys, I have a many payware aircrafts, and the ESDG ones are>the worst. Just a few words explaining why I think they are>bad.>>1. Buy and install RXP JL4, check how your default Lear looks>and let me know how many default gauges do you find. Answer,>almost none. The moving map is ages better than the ESDG>ones.>>2. Get any PSS Airbus, and if you don't like the model just>merge them with any of the great freeware we have available.>They cost about a half of what the ESDG ACs, and the panel, isbeats>a complete panel, with a fully functional FMC.>>3. Oh, yeah, the models of ESDG are awesome. But they are>totally FR killers. try the Socata TMB700 from Avsim. It's>free, it has almost 0 impact on FPS and the model is as good>as any ESDG one (or even better).>>4. Get the ESDG Cirrus and you'll see the jets are not a 1/4>quality compared to it.>>5. Get the Aeroworx King Air. It also needs the same stuff the>ESDG ACs need (A decent EFIS + a good navigation device such>as the GNS 430 or 530, both well provided by RXP), but the>quality of the model, external, internal, 2d panel is totally>superior to any ESDG jet.>>6. Get the Beneaviones CII + Leon Seale's CII panel (both free>at Avsim). Let me know if a virtual cockpit and/or cabin is>worth the price of the CII, because the 2d panel for sure>doesn't.>>So, let's go to the question, how I'd like the ESDG jets to>be?>>a. Fully functional FMC totally integrated with the moving>map.>b. Easier on FR.>c. Nicer 2d panel. A photorealistic wouldn't be bad, but also>a better looking panel and gauges would be nice. Just compare>the gauges to PMDG, LDS or PSS. They are poor!>>Except for b. I think the other two points make them cheap>payware stuff.>>I wouldn't mind if the price was a double of what it is, as>long as the product was perfect.>>Just my two cents, but I encourage anyone aiming for these>ESDG jets to go for something else, being either the ESDG>Cirrus, or any of the great F1 GA ACs.>>Leo 1) The default FS2004 Lear 45 is fairly nice and adding the RXP JL4 which has a great moving map and/or the RXP 530 does make for a pretty nice bird. No Rob Young flight dynamics though! Which counts for a lot in my book. And something I haven't mentioned before, sounds. It's got default sounds. I don't know about anyone else but my ears are not in need of a refit and I find ESDG's sound packages to be remarkably better than any default birds. I find sounds to be part of a package that counts towards the immersion factor.2) PSS Airbus? I don't want an Airbus, I want a BizJet! FMC? Yeah, PSS birds have fairly functional(not fully) FMC's which are nice and at a reasonable price. ESDG does let you know right up front that the FMC is not fully functional. I will say I would like it if ESDG planes had one though. Ron, are you still listening? Nevertheless, the psuedo ESDG FMC does a reasonable job and functional FMC birds take a looong time to develop. Again, I wasn't shopping for an Airbus and bringing up an Airbus is indeed going off topic.3) Framerate killers? I don't know what your system specs are but I've never had any framerate problem with any ESDG jet so far. And I always use the full blown 'Deluxe' model when I fly my Citation X that includes a nice animated lady passenger in the beautifully done virtual cabin. In fact, I find my Citation X Deluxe model and Hawker 400XP to be quite FR friendly while running my sim at 1600x1200 resolution with 4x AA and 16x AF. Perhaps your computer system is in need of a refit or performance tweaking?4) I can't comment on this as I don't have the Cirrus. But funny, I was thinking about getting it just today! Somehow I doubt the BizJets are only 1/4 the quality though. But this whole arguement is subjective and opinionated though. I have looked at the screenshots of the Cirrus and thought it looks very nice indeed, but they didn't make me scoff at my ESDG BizJets!5) The Aeroworx King Air B200 is an outstanding aircraft. Has one of the highest resolution VC's I have ever seen! Very clear and readable. 2D Panel is without reproach. However, it seems to hit my FR just a little, not that much though. I disagree with you about the external model as I have pointed out before I think ESDG's models are in the outstanding category and cannot be beat. Yes, the Aeroworx B200 model is also outstanding but I don't think it's superior to Bob Hayes's. His models are like Rob Young is to flight dyanmics, unbeatable. Anyway, after all that, ahh-hem, I thought this was supposed to be about BizJets, not Turboprops.6) I can't comment on this as I have not tried the Beneaviones CII + Leon Seale's CII panel. I'm sure it's nice though. Are you saying it doesn't have a VC though? I really like VC's although I don't consider them to be a requirement. But after flying with ESDG's VC's and really beautiful/georgeous Virtual Cabins, flying aircrafts that don't have this nice feature just isn't the same. Of course, along the lines of what Patrick said, I realize that some people really only care about systems and just want to have an aircraft that has very deep systems modeling and fuctional FMC's. Or maybe they don't care one bit about having a VC.I also have many payware aircrafts. The BizJet market seems to be a niche market that ESDG has concentrated on so far and I think they have made great quality aircrafts. I have no qualms with most of their gauges. I certainly don't think they're poor. Yeah sure, perhaps the moving map gauge could be a little better and the panels/VC's could be a little higher resolution. Still way better than any default panel/gauge though. WAY BETTER. Adding an RXP gauge into a default aircraft is an option, but you pay for it as well. And imo, I'd still rather have all the features(pseudo fmc, wonderful vitual cabin, panels and gauges that are just fine, outstanding models, and great sound packages) that an ESDG aicraft offers over that option. For the most part I think we're just going to have to just agree to disagree when comes to the quality of ESDG BizJets. You can compare other products to ESDG's, but what about when it comes specifically to BizJets? PSS, PMDG, LDS, F1, what BizJets do they offer?More framerate friendly? I'd find it hard to imagine a more framerate friendly payware aircraft than my ESDG aircrafts.What do I agree with you on? Well, as I already stated I would like a functional FMC in my Citation X even thought the pseudo fmc is ok. I wouldn't mind a little better panel(higher resolution), mostly for the VC though. I think the 2D panel is fine. If you compare the moving map gauge to the RXP JL4 perhaps you could say there is room for improvement.In the end, I certainly don't find my ESDG aircrafts to be 'bad' or 'poor'. Like Ron said, you don't pay as much for these aircrafts as PMDG or LDS. And PSS doesn't offer up a georgeous virtual cabin. Anyway, do one of those guys have a BizJet!?Some of this has been off topic which is ok to a degree, but as Ron pointed out the topic is about BizJets. It is a niche market and I think it's obvious there is a market for them. A number of people would like to see more BizJets, like a Gulfstream, Hawker 800XP, Dessault Falcons, ect. The only company that has delved into this market so far has been ESDG, and imo they certainly have not produced bad products with poor gauges and panels that are 'not much better then defaults after adding RXP gauges', ect. I hope they make more.Lol Leo,Jim Richards

[Guest lalo lolo1]

Thanks for taking the time for answering the whole thing.You are right about ESDG is the only one developing private jets, and that's why there hasn't been a real push to have their jets improved. I would love my Citation X to be the way I want it to be. That's my complaint. There's a lot to improve in those panels, and seeing what ESDG has done with the Cirrus, I have no doubt they have the capability.IMO they should rebuild all those 2d panels (I am not a fan of VCs, so I don't really care how they look) and start selling all those products again, with those improvements, giving some kind of discount to owners of the older product.Just check PMDG or LDS. They had a great product, and what do they do? they keep releasing patches after you thought the product is perfect, and those patches are free to owners of the original thing. They are more expensive, well, but I am sure most of us would be happy to pay over $40 for a Citation X with last generation gauges and a fully functional FMC. Wouldn't you?LeoHey, BTW, I have nothing against ESDG. Like I stated the Cirrus is one of the best payware available these days and it is ESDG's.

[Dillon 2,197]

First off the PMDG 737NG series is in need of an update if no more than to make it more framerate friendly (mileage may vary). Compared to Ariane's work the look of the PMDG 737 would look great on the level of say their 744. Why aren't you complainig about that Leo??? I'd like PMDG to get the 744F and MD11 out the hanger first though...Leo if you take the time and read the ES forums you'll see the Beechjet/Hawker is scheduled for an update that will bring that aircraft up to the same standards as the Cirrus (I can't wait :-)). If you ask nicely I'm sure the other birds will be updated in due time as well. Personally I don't see a problem with any ES jet as of late with the exception of the Beechjet/Hawker. Even the PremierI still holds an impressive look compared to some of the latest new releases that's out there...It's unfair to compare the Cirrus to older Eaglesoft work. This hobby is constantly evolving. It would be unfair to compare the look of the Ariane 737/BBJ VCe to the look of PMDG's 737NG series (don't get me wrong I find the functionality of the PMDG offering head and shoulders higher than anything out there in it's class)..."Like I stated the Cirrus is one of the 'best payware available' these days and it is ESDG's."So is everything else Eaglesoft has produced...