Sesquashtoo

The 'on going' Threaded Opt debate...

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After switching back to the W10 Anniversary Edition, from W10 C.U., I did have Threaded Opt as 'Auto'.  I decided to play around with this again, so did an A/B  rotate from KPGD, and with the nVidia Mask showing Auto, I had 27 FPS.  With turning it to OFF in the Mask, I did the exact same flight within a minute, and then had 37...a gain of 10 FPS.  So, the debate goes on.....on or off.  I'll leave it off in both XP11 and XP10.  For my system, I get an instant 33 percent FPS boost with it set to OFF.

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Ses, if I understood Ben's explanation correctly, this is a balance. If you have enough headroom, leaving it on is beneficial. If you reach the tipping point, framerates drop. From reading all the pro's and con's, I understood this is very config dependent. Whatever works out for you, is the best ! 

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Don't think there's much to debate really. On/Auto works better for some users, Off works better for some. I'd say use whatever works best on your system :)

However don't forget to test it thoroughly. You might gain a few FPS at dense, detailed airports, and lose a few at rural airports, or vice versa, so you can't only use one scenario to test it.

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Thanks for the comments, guys.  Yeah..truly, one should run it, for that person's spec's...  Since I run always in H.T., you'd think that it set to ON would be the FPS ticket...but so far, it appears better as OFF. :)

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On 4/22/2017 at 6:15 AM, jh71 said:

Ses, if I understood Ben's explanation correctly, this is a balance. If you have enough headroom, leaving it on is beneficial. If you reach the tipping point, framerates drop. From reading all the pro's and con's, I understood this is very config dependent. Whatever works out for you, is the best ! 

Right...with so many different computers hardware spec's, it really is always post a thread of YOUR experience, and blah, blah...to advise another User, that possibly, they might also see the blah, blah of what your post is about.  Always the case...(large smile).

I read in 1984, you were only allowed one approved computer system.  Big Brother takes care of your configurations, as the twenty video camera lenses spread around your monitor's casing, watches for a flick of facial muscle that betrays, your config displeasure.  Thank goodness THAT has not happened...wait, why is there a flashing box opening up at the top right of my screen as I type this...that says; "Microsoft C.U. had detected a smirk around your lower facial extremities, be prepared to answer Microsoft Tech Security Detail, in the next few moments, do NOT turn off your computer, unless you want your front door bent in half.....".

"Uh oh...."

 

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Hi Mitch,

I run with HT=OFF and have done for some time now. Works best for P3D. In X-Plane 11 Threaded optimisation=ON provided a very significant general boost in frame rate for me. With it OFF, and using reasonable in-sim settings, I struggled to reach or exceed 30fps at, for example, KSEA and I saw micro-stuttering (in cockpit while panning and during flight). With  TO=ON the sim is so much smoother AND now I can use G-SYNC which provides that final polish. Out in the sticks/less dense areas frame rates can rise as high as 70, albeit with clear skies. I use the very handy Plugin 'DiscreetFPS' to display frame rates.

Regards,

Mike

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2 hours ago, Cruachan said:

Hi Mitch,

I run with HT=OFF and have done for some time now. Works best for P3D. In X-Plane 11 Threaded optimisation=ON provided a very significant general boost in frame rate for me. With it OFF, and using reasonable in-sim settings, I struggled to reach or exceed 30fps at, for example, KSEA and I saw micro-stuttering (in cockpit while panning and during flight). With  TO=ON the sim is so much smoother AND now I can use G-SYNC which provides that final polish. Out in the sticks/less dense areas frame rates can rise as high as 70, albeit with clear skies. I use the very handy Plugin 'DiscreetFPS' to display frame rates.

Regards,

Mike

Thanks for your input and experience, Mike.  On my system, (and doesn't this bring home the point of so many variables...) running with HT on, gives the smoother experience and highest FPS in P3D, FSX, but don't know if that is the case actually with XP. I have never turned it off in the BIOS, and then ran XP. I have done that for FSX, etc...but did not run XP (probably should have...). That could be a future 'what if' session. :)

Post Edit: "OK, Mike, you got a hook now in my mouth. I'm going to enter the BIOS, shut down HT, fire up XP...with T.O. set to on, then to off, and see what gives....".

Curiosity DOES kill the cat...dang....

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5 hours ago, Cruachan said:

Hi Mitch,

I run with HT=OFF and have done for some time now. Works best for P3D. In X-Plane 11 Threaded optimisation=ON provided a very significant general boost in frame rate for me. With it OFF, and using reasonable in-sim settings, I struggled to reach or exceed 30fps at, for example, KSEA and I saw micro-stuttering (in cockpit while panning and during flight). With  TO=ON the sim is so much smoother AND now I can use G-SYNC which provides that final polish. Out in the sticks/less dense areas frame rates can rise as high as 70, albeit with clear skies. I use the very handy Plugin 'DiscreetFPS' to display frame rates.

Regards,

Mike

Well Mike, I'm back, from an hour of pretty extensive A/B flights and here are the particulars.

First off, the main speaking point.  Mike was absolutely right, (as regards my particular system, and I guess, his...) that running XP11 not in H.T. mode, and with Thread Optimization as On, gives the best FPS obtainment, and the smoothest sequential on-screen flight animation.

Now..for the rest of the story;

For my test bed, I chose KPGD (Charlotte County, Florida) today, with xEnviro running the cloud show. Everything else as per my normal add on setup, for instance, my Plug In's, blah, blah

I firstly turned off H.T. in my BIOS and rebooted. That done, I looked to see what my Thread Optimization setting was to write it down, to place my highest FPS obtainment in taxi and rotate, then 5 minutes of flight over the exact same flight path, was the exact same taxi, was the exact same plane, my most FPS sucking G.A. full glass cockpit, etc....all was the exact same scenario with each Thread Opt on, or Thread Opt as off.

Mike, the results were pretty astounding!

WIth Hyper Threading set to On, and with my i7-975 Extreme 4 core CPU, here are the findings with the above parameters in play, and strictly controlled:

With H.T. as On in the BIOS:

Thread Optimization as On: 18-22/25 FPS

Thread Optimization as Off: 22-27/28 FPS

With H.T. as Off in the BIOS:

Thread Optimization as On: 23-38/44 FPS

Thread Optimization as Off: 19/22-27-34

Mike, wow....so glad you chimed in. I have NEVER tried H.T. as set to off at any time in either XP10, or XP11.  So the now defacto burnt-in BIOS setting and Thread Optimization setting for my particular system specs is obviously:

H.T. as off, and Threaded Optimization as On.  Folks, I have picked up across the board at any given time of the flight 7-8 FPS, and honestly, that is huge in the XP11 world, with the sim cranked right out!

So, in review, I can't say whether the reader will see any  of my results, but certainly, I can recommend that the reader tries his/her own A/B test with very controlled scenarios, same airport, same taxi, xEnviro in use, same flight path over scenery, same unaltered or dumbed down XP 11 settings...all of it, and see for yourself, whether as Mike advised me, you will see a much better all-round XP11/your system performance with H.T. turned off, and Threaded Optimization as turned, On ( not the Auto setting).

Good luck... :)))) and Thank you Mike. You have gained me 7-8 FPS constant across the board, and that's with my most FPS-demanding G.A. glass cockpit!

Cheers,

Mitch'er 

Post Edit: "Mike, I am now going to try H.T. off in both P3D and FSX, with the needed Afinity Mask setting for H.T. as Off, to see what else this BIOS settings will dish out. Later....".

Post Edit Final:  "Mike...as for P3D and FSX, my A/B findings for H.T. on, or H.T. off is this.  With H.T. as off, initial scenery load-in time was at least 300 percent longer, than with H.T. as On.  Also, with H.T. as off, was a loss of 7-10 FPS! in the same Caribbean scenario. I always kept a steady (locked 32.9 FPS) with H.T. as on, but with it off, besides the 300 percent load in time increase as P3D initialized, I had a drop to 20-23 FPS!  I then went back into the BIOS and turn H.T. back on...and with the next P3D initialization, load times were 300 percent less for airport/scenery read, and I was right back to a constant 32.9 FPS in, or out of cockpit, same plane.  Steve W has always maintained that FSX and P3D NEEDS H.T. as on, for best performance, etc...and my findings absolutely confirm this on my system. So, back to H.T. as on, with an affinity mask of 116, for the best and most smooth FSX and P3D performance.   H.T. off for XP11, or I just suffer a loss of 8 FPS with H.T. on....".

Cheers,

Mitch times twice.

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Hi Mitch,

Hey, that's good news! Glad it worked for you, although I must confess I'm a little surprised. I was starting to wonder whether it had more to do with the number of cpu cores in use, but our results seem to be suggesting that this is not necessarily the case.

Not sure you will achieve the same success with FSX/P3D, however. I have to use an affinity mask value of 21760 (stumbled on by accident) in Prepar3D.cfg which flies in the face of known logic. With each fresh run of the sim this appears to randomise the choice of core which handles the main thread. The remaining 7 physical cores are always used well. I've given up trying to persuade others of its value as there is considerable skepticism out there...LOL! Also, it's fair to say that my choice of cpu is somewhat 'unusual' and not shared by the majority. However, the results speak volumes as performance is silky smooth in a wide variety of situations with frame rates pegged around 30 (P3D limiter set to 31). Also, it should be noted that I don't use G-SYNC with Prepar3D.

Where 4 and 6 cored cpu's are concerned, and for best performance in P3D, much has been said about using an appropriate affinity mask with Hyperthreading ON. I would not dispute this advice as my experience over the past eighteen months is restricted to the i7-5960X and P3D definitely prefers HT to be OFF. Also, there appears to be no significant downsides and, as a welcome bonus, the water-cooled, overclocked cpu runs cooler when pushed hard (never higher than 50 C and idles around 26-30 C depending on ambient temperature).

I nearly gave up on X-Plane 11 until I discovered the Threaded optimisation 'tweak' was working. That and reducing the levels of the all-pervading haze has made a huge difference. Now I have 3 great sims: Prepar3D, X-Plane and Aerofly FS2.

I wonder what the next XP update will bring? Hopefully the TO tweak will continue to work, but nothing can be guaranteed where XP is concerned.

Regards,

Mike

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42 minutes ago, Cruachan said:

Hi Mitch,

Hey, that's good news! Glad it worked for you, although I must confess I'm a little surprised. I was starting to wonder whether it had more to do with the number of cpu cores in use, but our results seem to be suggesting that this is not necessarily the case.

Not sure you will achieve the same success with FSX/P3D, however. I have to use an affinity mask value of 21760 (stumbled on by accident) in Prepar3D.cfg which flies in the face of known logic. With each fresh run of the sim this appears to randomise the choice of core which handles the main thread. The remaining 7 physical cores are always used well. I've given up trying to persuade others of its value as there is considerable skepticism out there...LOL! Also, it's fair to say that my choice of cpu is somewhat 'unusual' and not shared by the majority. However, the results speak volumes as performance is silky smooth in a wide variety of situations with frame rates pegged around 30 (P3D limiter set to 31).

Where 4 and 6 cored cpu's are concerned, and for best performance in P3D, much has been said about using an appropriate affinity mask with Hyperthreading ON. I would not dispute this advice as my experience over the past eighteen months is restricted to the i7-5960X which definitely prefers it to be OFF. Also, there appears to be no significant downsides and, as a welcome bonus, the water-cooled, overclocked cpu runs cooler when pushed hard (never higher than 50 C and idles around 26-30 C depending on ambient temperature).

I nearly gave up on X-Plane 11 until I discovered the Threaded optimisation 'tweak' was working. That and reducing the levels of the all-pervading haze has made a huge difference. Now I have 3 great sims: Prepar3D, X-Plane and Aerofly FS2.

I wonder what the next XP update will bring? Hopefully the TO tweak will continue to work, but nothing can be guaranteed where XP is concerned.

Regards,

Mike

Mike (yes..I'm in bold for it is important!.....I found a very important discovery, Mike...and that is if you are NOT using H.T., do NOT use any Affinity Mask setting in P3D!!!!!

With my H.T. as off, with my AM setting of: 15, or 116, I had a dog's breakfast of performance. I lost 8-10 FPS.  I decided to remove the entire AM setting by // it out, and ran P3D again with H.T. off.   WOW....I got back ALL my locked in 33 FPS performance once more, which gave me 32.9 in all scenarios.  I again went back to the AM setting of 14 and 15 in two consecutive runs...and again, my FPS with H.T. off was in the toilet loss of 8-10 FPS.

Went back once more same airport same everything, and removed the AM setting, and got back on the next run, all my FPS performance that I had with H.T. as on, and the AM in play with either 85, or 116 settings.

So Mike, my  finding is this,  H.T. can be turned off permanantely, for myself to get that wonderful XP 11 performance boost, and I can STILL keep my great 32.9 FPS and stutter free, with H.T. as off, by totally removing the AM setting, of which I did, for both P3D 3.4 and FSX boxed.

So...I get to order the cake, and eat it as well.

VERY HAPPY FLIGHT SIMULATION ENTHUSIAST, cross platform, today... :))))))))

Cheers, and so very glad that you decided to chime in on the thread. Yes, so VERY glad.... :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Mitch

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Hi Mitch,

Steady on, I think you will need a large beverage or else you won't sleep tonight!

Might be wise to keep this to ourselves...lol! If Steve finds out about these meddlings we may have some explaining to do. Actually, he is aware of my maverick affinity mask and has been gracious enough to let it go without any attempt to condemn my somewhat rash and imprudent behaviour 😜. Why it works remains a mystery. Assigning the main thread randomly to a different core each time the sim is run must be a good thing as it divides the heavy workload across the cores and may help to extend the cpu's lifespan. Perhaps this only works with an 8-cored cpu, who knows, and perhaps everything I've said is just so much nonsense..LOL! Still, as always, it's fun to speculate 😀.

Regards,

Mike

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58 minutes ago, Cruachan said:

Hi Mitch,

Steady on, I think you will need a large beverage or else you won't sleep tonight!

Might be wise to keep this to ourselves...lol! If Steve finds out about these meddlings we may have some explaining to do. Actually, he is aware of my maverick affinity mask and has been gracious enough to let it go without any attempt to condemn my somewhat rash and imprudent behaviour 😜. Why it works remains a mystery. Assigning the main thread randomly to a different core each time the sim is run must be a good thing as it divides the heavy workload across the cores and may help to extend the cpu's lifespan. Perhaps this only works with an 8-cored cpu, who knows, and perhaps everything I've said is just so much nonsense..LOL! Still, as always, it's fun to speculate 😀.

Regards,

Mike

LOL...already had three beers...been there, done that, LOL.  Mike, there is really 'earned' excitement today, in that I have been stuffing myself with the 'cake' all afternoon long.  I have switched from XP11, to P3D, to FSX, and both P3D and FSX have now the same great performance that I had under H.T. as on, and an AM in place, but...but...now with the absolute BEST performance, I have every had from XP11. Ever!

Dead smooth animation, when turns are made at taxi to the active, through even the likes of freewware Mr. X, and his payware KSLC.  Rotations at 28-38 FPS, not seen on my system before H.T. off, and Thread Opt, on. xEnviro can throw the atmospheric 'kitchen sink' at XP11 and my CPU/GPU, without so much as a burp....no FPS diving, it stays at the top of the game.  To say that now having all my platforms, performing at 100 percent of what my system can deliver...is simply...well, simply outstanding......  XP11 always had lower FPS, then did a full blown feature set P3D or FSX-boxed.  Always took an FPS back seat.

No more.....I am getting the max FPS from all three now, with the most demanding settings, within all.

Outstanding, Mike....

"Bye-bye, H.T....hello XP11 FPS..."

Mitch

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