Can't seem to flare this plane

[TNguitar 4]

More than any of my other planes, I seem to have to drive this PC12 right down to the runway and can't flare and I always end up with either the front wheel hitting first or all 3 together.  If I pull back on the yoke then it floats way down the runway and the speed drops very low and I'm afraid it will plop down hard if I do that.

In the 1900D, for example, I flare that thing perfect every time. The front just naturally comes up and the main wheels touch so nicely.  Same most of the time with the Caravan, and my Twotter.  But this plane is just not handling like those and I can't get a nice flare to save my life. 

I'm looking for some things to try.  Is it as simple as just starting early, and start that floating word not allowed even before I reach the runway pulling back on the yoke?  I literally feel like I am pointed downward and having to push the nose way down to get the plane down even though I am at around 70 to 75 kts.  I have flaps down all the way and I am assuming it would even be worse if I didn't.  

Any suggestions or pointers?

 

Thanks

[mgr 29]

Hiya,

Problem could be you're flying to fast. The final approach speed depending on the weight is 67 kts (3000 kg) till 84 kts (4750 kg).

Touchdown speed is much lower and close to stall speed.

Fly the speedpointer until short before the threshold and then reduce speed and flare.

Good luck!

Marcel

PS

Example this movie, from minut: 2:30 Pay attention to the right ASI and EADI.  Stop looking at the copilot...

 

[scottb613 1,188]

9 hours ago, TNguitar said:

Any suggestions or pointers?

Hi...

Also it's a STOL aircraft - so normally 2 notches of flaps unless you're landing on a very short runway....

With 3 notches I think the real ones land pretty level too...

Regards,
Scott

[TNguitar 4]

Thanks guys.  I try even slower.  Yeah, I am using it for Alaska bush strips, some very short, 2,300 ft  and some shorter.  I have no care about long strips and can afford to float down them a ways, but ill keep at it.  One thing that may be throwing me is that the speed guage has the 50, then 80 marks with no leters for the 60, 70 to 80, I have to try and see the small marks and I may not be seeing them accurately. 

 

Thanks.  I love this plane and want to use it on my bush strips so I need to get this solved.  

[softreset 33]

Landing on 4000+ ft asphalt runways (which is most of the time) I've had a lot of good luck with planning 85-90 at decision height with Flaps 30. I'll cut the power just before runway threshold and typically touch down around 72-75 kts.

I've found that if you're above >80 kts at Flaps 30s there's a good chance of floating.

Also, like in that video I'm usually near idle power on short final with about the same attitude. It's definitely a pronounced nose down angle.

Between the Twin Otter, Dornier 228 and the MU-2 the PC-12 is super "floaty" if you're too fast. I've also found that using Autogyro's modified .air file and some flap drag modifications (that were posted in this forum a week or so ago) help tremendously.

Having flown on PC-12s a few times (and aware that Carenado's IRL simulations are not always accurate) I definitely found that trying to mirror similar flap and gear speed schedules was near impossible. The modifications helped that for me, personally.

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

Just a reminder:

[Flaps.0]
type=1
lift_scalar = 0.7   // new
drag_scalar = 1.9  // new
pitch_scalar = 0.8 // new
span-outboard=    0.7   // Percent span for flap position
extending-time=    25   // Seconds, time to fully extend
system_type=        0   // 0 = electrical
damaging-speed  = 170                                  // KIAS
blowout-speed   = 175                                  // KIAS
flaps-position.0=   0   // degrees
flaps-position.1=  15   // degrees
flaps-position.2=  30   // degrees
flaps-position.3=  40   // degrees

 

[TNguitar 4]

45 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

Just a reminder:

[Flaps.0]
type=1
lift_scalar = 0.7   // new
drag_scalar = 1.9  // new
pitch_scalar = 0.8 // new
span-outboard=    0.7   // Percent span for flap position
extending-time=    25   // Seconds, time to fully extend
system_type=        0   // 0 = electrical
damaging-speed  = 170                                  // KIAS
blowout-speed   = 175                                  // KIAS
flaps-position.0=   0   // degrees
flaps-position.1=  15   // degrees
flaps-position.2=  30   // degrees
flaps-position.3=  40   // degrees

 

Thanks Bert, I just pasted those in to the cfg.  Can't wait to try them.

[mgr 29]

Hi,

22 hours ago, TNguitar said:

Thanks guys.  I try even slower.  Yeah, I am using it for Alaska bush strips, some very short, 2,300 ft  and some shorter.  I have no care about long strips and can afford to float down them a ways, but ill keep at it.  One thing that may be throwing me is that the speed guage has the 50, then 80 marks with no leters for the 60, 70 to 80, I have to try and see the small marks and I may not be seeing them accurately.

To "counter" this, use the "white arc" on the ASI when flaring. The white-arc end at 64 KTS which is the stall speed at MLW (4500 kg). So go idle and try to touchdown just at or below the end of the white-ARC.

Just did a approach, approx MLW at runway 21 De Kooy. Followed the AOA (oke 1/2 diamond to slow) and followed with a flare to touchdown just above stall speed. Main gear first and no floating. Clear weather no winds.

Marcel

 

[ErnstB 13]

Hi,

This flare thing seems to be a real world effect if landing speeds are too high.

Read the extremely informative Philip Greenspun document particularly chapters "Piloting Basics" and "Short-Field Landings".

http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/pc-12/review

The enire document offers great insight information from a real world pilot!

Good reading!

Ernst

 

[TNguitar 4]

On 2/10/2018 at 8:08 AM, mgr said:

Hi,

To "counter" this, use the "white arc" on the ASI when flaring. The white-arc end at 64 KTS which is the stall speed at MLW (4500 kg). So go idle and try to touchdown just at or below the end of the white-ARC.

Just did a approach, approx MLW at runway 21 De Kooy. Followed the AOA (oke 1/2 diamond to slow) and followed with a flare to touchdown just above stall speed. Main gear first and no floating. Clear weather no winds.

Marcel

 

That is one sweet landing.  I notice I am not having as much trouble when I only use 2 notches of flaps.