What is with Payware addons these days?

[Guest monsoon]

RANT ONI am just looking at a Legacy that is soon due out. I have their ERJ145 already which is a fairly descent plane but lacking some systems. I forget I paid for the 145 but the Legacy is going for about 32USD. In my mind to me this is just an upgrade from the 145 to the legacy. The EFIS and panel look all the same to me. I am sure the Dev used a lot of the 145 programming to complete the Legacy but still we are paying full price addon. Yeah sure there are some upgrades in the systems and fms but isnt that what an upgrade does. And just a suggestion from a hardcore addon buyer and experinced airline pilot PLEASE PLEASE do not focus your attention to what goes on in the back cabin. This really is a complete waste of time. Instead use that time and focus and making the systems more complete and fps smoother. I really couldn't care less if a flight attendant is walking up and down the isle serving coffee while i am doing an approach down to minimums. Again, in my mind, this addition of the cabin "eye candy" is a way of pulling the blinds over our eyes. What I mean by this is when a product comes out and the customers complain about "this and that" not being simulated, then we ask what did we pay for? An answer from the devs seem to always be "such and such wasn't simulated but we do have a flight attendant that serves coffee". Unless it is a real life flight attendant serving me coffe with a touch of baileys in it I dont even care about anything that exists in the plane from the back of my seat to the back of the aircraft. This IS a plane simulation and a lot of people use it for real world practice so please give them the chance to practice what they will experience in the real world which of course is a aircraft with the systems operational in accordance with an aircraft POH.RANT OFF

[Murmur 3,959]

>And just a>suggestion from a hardcore addon buyer and experinced airline>pilot PLEASE PLEASE do not focus your attention to what goes>on in the back cabin. This really is a complete waste of time.>Instead use that time and focus and making the systems more>complete and fps smoother. I really couldn't care less if a>flight attendant is walking up and down the isle serving>coffee while i am doing an approach down to minimums.I second _every_ _single_ _word_Marco

[Dark Moment 0]

Watch out, you'll offend the 'wing view' crowd! They like peanuts with their coffee, too!I'm glad to find a couple of others who actually fly from the cockpit, however. It seems that many people spend their time worrying whether the fourteen hundreth rivet from the front on the left hand side is the right shade of alloy :)MarkMark "Dark Moment" BeaumontVP Fleet, DC-3 AirwaysTeam Member, MAAM-SIM[a href=http://www.swiremariners.com/cathayhk.html" target="_blank]http://www.paxship.com/maamlogo2.jpg[/a]

[Ricardo41 5,959]

>RANT ON>I am just looking at a Legacy that is soon due out. I have>their ERJ145 already which is a fairly descent plane but>lacking some systems. I forget I paid for the 145 but the>Legacy is going for about 32USD. In my mind to me this is just>an upgrade from the 145 to the legacy. The EFIS and panel look>all the same to me. I am sure the Dev used a lot of the 145>programming to complete the Legacy but still we are paying>full price addon. Yeah sure there are some upgrades in the>systems and fms but isnt that what an upgrade does. And just a>suggestion from a hardcore addon buyer and experinced airline>pilot PLEASE PLEASE do not focus your attention to what goes>on in the back cabin. This really is a complete waste of time.>Instead use that time and focus and making the systems more>complete and fps smoother. I really couldn't care less if a>flight attendant is walking up and down the isle serving>coffee while i am doing an approach down to minimums. Again,>in my mind, this addition of the cabin "eye candy" is a way of>pulling the blinds over our eyes. What I mean by this is when>a product comes out and the customers complain about "this and>that" not being simulated, then we ask what did we pay for? An>answer from the devs seem to always be "such and such wasn't>simulated but we do have a flight attendant that serves>coffee". Unless it is a real life flight attendant serving me>coffe with a touch of baileys in it I dont even care about>anything that exists in the plane from the back of my seat to>the back of the aircraft. This IS a plane simulation and a lot>of people use it for real world practice so please give them>the chance to practice what they will experience in the real>world which of course is a aircraft with the systems>operational in accordance with an aircraft POH.>RANT OFFDo you have the Legacy? If not, you are hardly in a position to comment on an addon that hasn't even been released yet. As for the "cabin issue." That's becoming an increasingly mute point. Flight 1's ATR has demonstrated that you can have system depth AND all the eye candy. ricardo

[Guest monsoon]

Hey Ricardo. I am going by what they posted for the features of the Legacy. Don't get me wrong I am not attacking them but trying to put some constructive critisism in place. The do a good job over there. I have their 14 and the 737 and plan on getting the Legacy. I am sorry if it seemed like my post was attacking that particular company. My bad and sorry Victor (who of which does an awesome job on the forums). I tired to shift my post to more of a generalization about 3rd party addon's. I can give an example of just about every 3rd party company thatdoes this. I am just trying to give my opinion coming from an airline pilot's POV. I love this hobby and support it fully and if I ever see MS drop FS from their PC version and make it and only console version they will have to answer to me! lol

[Ricardo41 5,959]

>Hey Ricardo. I am going by what they posted for the features>of the Legacy. Don't get me wrong I am not attacking them but>trying to put some constructive critisism in place. The do a>good job over there. I have their 14 and the 737 and plan on>getting the Legacy. I am sorry if it seemed like my post was>attacking that particular company. My bad and sorry Victor>(who of which does an awesome job on the forums). I tired to>shift my post to more of a generalization about 3rd party>addon's. I can give an example of just about every 3rd party>company thatdoes this. I am just trying to give my opinion>coming from an airline pilot's POV. I love this hobby and>support it fully and if I ever see MS drop FS from their PC>version and make it and only console version they will have to>answer to me! lolNo problem. But, what's wrong with having a flight attendant in the cabin. Lol. ricardo

[Guest monsoon]

Like I said. As long as she brings me a REAL coffee with REAL Baileys in it..............Nothing!

[1mikel151 71]

And just a>suggestion from a hardcore addon buyer and experinced airline>pilot PLEASE PLEASE do not focus your attention to what goes>on in the back cabin. This really is a complete waste of time.>Instead use that time and focus and making the systems more>complete and fps smoother. I really couldn't care less if a>flight attendant is walking up and down the isle serving>coffee while i am doing an approach down to minimums.While I can appreciate your stance on this addon from another hardcore addon buyer/designer, I hope developers don't take the above statements to heart since "eye candy" is just as important, if not more to me as systems. I can honestly say that I would never purchase an addon focused on systems only.Regards, MichaelKDFWhttp://www.calvirair.com/mcpics/tfbeta.jpg

[Guest Len]

I actually like the added realism just like EagleSoft's Citation X and the female passenger. And why can't we have our cake and eat it too? Doesn't have to be all or nothing particularly in this day of greater realism and immersiveness. Bring it on. Maybe next we'll have a whole plane full of passengers. Of course it's highly realistic flying around in empty planes {not}.

[Guest monsoon]

If there are going to be pax and fa's then at least get the systems down pat first. remember guys this is a SIMULATOR not a game. i think people have taken this simulator to a level it wasn't meant to be. it is a training tool and a good one at that especially when combined with a organizatin such as VATSIM

[altstiff 71]

Why can't we have both? Take PMDG (we have others like the LVD and the Wilco 737) they did a great job on the eye candy and systems.

[KERNEL32 510]

>remember guys this is a SIMULATOR not a game.Well from how I read your statement, it is a faux pas. Yes, it is a simulator, simulating everything possible in the real world counterpart. Would we not see a toilet in a 737? Would we not see a passenger or WING in the real aircraft?I really don't care what the carpet color or pattern is in the cabin in the simulator, but to have a cabin is simply more realistic, and adds to the immersion. But on the flip side, YES, it is much more important to model a working electrical system or APU before worrying about the seat back trays ;)

[LAdamson 240]

>If there are going to be pax and fa's then at least get the>systems down pat first. remember guys this is a SIMULATOR not>a game. i think people have taken this simulator to a level it>wasn't meant to be. it is a training tool and a good one at>that especially when combined with a organizatin such as>VATSIMIf I'm going to actually fly a 727 for Fed Ex and feel a bit rusty, then I might be interested in the full system routine. If I'm going to sim fly a 727 as a recreation of the past, then I might be more interested in the eye candy aspect. In MY case, my interest would be in the "eye candy" category for the 727, yet I'd be highly interested in functional replicas of the Garmin 1000, Avidyne, Chelton, and Dynon glass panels for GA, as they would serve a "personal" real life purpose.As I have a great interest in WWII aircraft, I'd certainly want the eye candy such as exterior detail and panel graphics for immersion, and a balance of replicating systems without going overboard for every system detail. L.Adamson

[tiberiu11 55]

While we can model and texture however we want, gauge programming is a lot harder. A modeler can make the best model, since he is not restricted by some of the sim's restrictions. That is why you see better looking models and panels that do not have exactly 100% perfect systems. If there would be a team of programmers working on getting the panel/systems right to the smallest detail, then you can argue your point, but since programming is so difficult, there are a lot more modelers than programmers in the field (how many freeware FMC's have you seen compared to GOOD quality freeware models)You have to understand that Feelthere or any other company can justify the price, since a lot of work has been put into this aircraft, even if it is a minor change in the visual of the panel or even gauges, think that a lot of these things go in the back of the scene, which you do not see. Before you know how much is involved into making an aircraft, please do not just jump to conclusions, as that might not be the right choice. I know since I do both models and panels and from my experience, a model is a pleasure compared to a panel.

[Guest iholrf]

*sips his coffee and bailey's and nods silently*Don't agree with the model is easier than the panel part though. I would way rather paint a panel or program some gauges than bend polys. ;)Monsoon, your best bet is to read some reviews and see what others who have layed out their cash are saying.CheersShad