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Marenostrum

Entering the Hold issue

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Yesterday I was approaching to Madeira Fuchal airport LPMA

I was follofing the STAR LIDRO 1C

ATC asked me to enter the hold on the fix MA532. 

The fix MA532 was also the active waypoint at about 50NM from my PPS

I was able to select the MA532 wpt but when I pressed the HOLD button on the FMC I was unable to activate the MA532 fix.

There was already a fix for the HOLD...the MA514 (that was later on my route)

I tried many times to change the fix to MA532 but I was unable...also setting a new WPT before the active WPT (not to have the MA532 as the active wpt)..but I was still unable.

Once I was closer to the MA532...I do not know why...I was finally able to select and assign the new fix in the HOLD setting the correct MA532.

The question is:

Why I was unable to change/assign the fix immediately? Why to wait until I was close to the wpt?

Is there a relation between setting the FIX and the distance from the fix?

Thank you.

Regards,

Stefano

 


Stefano Biasiotti  LIPE

 

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I think MA514 was over riding the attempt to set up MA532.  The FMS will only set up one hold. 

On occasion I will see published holding patterns in the terminal procedures built into the navdata, never in the US but it seems to be common in Europe.  It is as if the clearance to fly the published arrival terminates at the hold unless otherwise cleared by ATC.  In the US, there are published holds on arrivals but the clearance to fly the arrival extends all the way to the terminating fix or vector and the hold is entered only when a clearance is amended by ATC.   I'm adding all this to let you know I fly in the US real world so I'm not familiar with the Europe stuff.

I think you need to step over the hold at MA514 to set up the one at MA532.  What I mean by step over is LSB the next waypoint over the hold on the legs page to effectively remove it.


Dan Downs KCRP

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3 hours ago, downscc said:

I think MA514 was over riding the attempt to set up MA532.  The FMS will only set up one hold. 

On occasion I will see published holding patterns in the terminal procedures built into the navdata, never in the US but it seems to be common in Europe.  It is as if the clearance to fly the published arrival terminates at the hold unless otherwise cleared by ATC.  In the US, there are published holds on arrivals but the clearance to fly the arrival extends all the way to the terminating fix or vector and the hold is entered only when a clearance is amended by ATC.   I'm adding all this to let you know I fly in the US real world so I'm not familiar with the Europe stuff.

I think you need to step over the hold at MA514 to set up the one at MA532.  What I mean by step over is LSB the next waypoint over the hold on the legs page to effectively remove it.

This is an interesting test that I can do. Next week I'll have a group flight to Madeira (again) and I will test your "step over" procedure.

in any case I can confirm that when I was closer to MA532 I have been able  to set that fix. In my attempts to do it I do not know if I have previously deleted the MA514 . I will report the results of my test.

what you say makes sense, considering that Madeira has a very tricky approach and often it is necessary to hold before proceeding towards the final.

thank you Dan!

 


Stefano Biasiotti  LIPE

 

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Did you line select the "Next Hold" prompt on the Hold page?  That should open a blank Hold page where you can enter any fix you like (from your route). 

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Andrew Crowley

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On 11/4/2018 at 10:49 PM, Stearmandriver said:

Did you line select the "Next Hold" prompt on the Hold page?  That should open a blank Hold page where you can enter any fix you like (from your route). 

To tell the truth I did it...but I do not remember a page where I could set the fix...I will double check. Thank you.


Stefano Biasiotti  LIPE

 

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Ha! I had this very same scenario yesterday on a flight from Juneau to Ketchikan. We were told to slow and then we were given holding for another arriving aircraft.

The holding fix was also the same as the MAP hold. My FO selected HOLD and then we verified the info, but there was no ACTIVATE prompt. That's because he didn't go to NEXT HOLD and then input the name for our hold.

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Matt Cee

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