CpnBill

New to Prepar3d- Video Card upgrade time

Recommended Posts

Hello all-

 

Thanks for your help in getting started with Prepar3d.  I purchased it earlier this week and excited to start in on it.  One thing that is bottlenecking me right now is my old video card.  I built my new system about a year ago, but still have not upgraded the video card.  I'm still running a GTX750 Ti.  I can send you the specs of my machine tonight, but I know it's time for an upgrade.  I'm just wondering how much $$$ I really want to throw at it.  I'm slowly starting to search the forums and have found some info but was curious what you guys think.  I'm not sure I'll be doing VR flying.  I currently have 3 1080 monitors, i am not sure when/if it's worth it to upgrade to 4k.  With that being said, do you think a 1070 would be good enough, or do I need to save for the 1080's or something even newer?

Share this post


Link to post
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

To give any good advice here requires some knowledge of the rest of the system.  A balanced system is what you want to shoot for, unless you're upgrading in increments and/or want the ability to future-proof your graphics subsystem for the next build (as much as that may or may not be possible given the pace of hardware evolution).

So...CPU?  Motherboard?  RAM??

Regards

Share this post


Link to post

Makes sense...and I was going to get that when I got home, but was able to look it up.

  • Intel i5-8600k
  • Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 5
  • 16 GB DDR4 3000 G. Skill
  • Samsung 850 EVO 500 GB
  • 3 TB Barracuda 7200RPM for backup

Share this post


Link to post

That's a solid system--except, as you've already realized, that skunky 750Ti.  A better video card will make a considerable difference in P3Dv4 on your rig.

OK, assuming you have your 8600K overclocked to somewhere near 5 GHz (if not you should seriously consider doing that), I'd recommend the 1070Ti and up (1080, 1080Ti, 2070, 2080, 2080Ti)...definitely nothing with less than 8GB VRAM given you are going to be running either a triple-1080 or 4K display system.

Regards

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, CpnBill said:

Hello all-

 

Thanks for your help in getting started with Prepar3d.  I purchased it earlier this week and excited to start in on it.  One thing that is bottlenecking me right now is my old video card.  I built my new system about a year ago, but still have not upgraded the video card.  I'm still running a GTX750 Ti.  I can send you the specs of my machine tonight, but I know it's time for an upgrade.  I'm just wondering how much $$$ I really want to throw at it.  I'm slowly starting to search the forums and have found some info but was curious what you guys think.  I'm not sure I'll be doing VR flying.  I currently have 3 1080 monitors, i am not sure when/if it's worth it to upgrade to 4k.  With that being said, do you think a 1070 would be good enough, or do I need to save for the 1080's or something even newer?

It all depends what settings you want to use.  If u want high levels of AA to eliminate shimmering, dynamic lighting, lots of shadows, fly at night, or fly in overcast conditions get the most GPU you can afford.  I do not buy into the whole you need to balance your system theory.  Even if you had an old 2500K cpu P3D v4 would still take full advantage of whatever GPU you choose.  

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks to both of you......this is great info.

 

As for settings....I'd be happy with 30 FPS and the best lighting, shadows,night and overcast I can find.  I also don't want to go drop $700 on a card.  If a 1070 would do this, then maybe that's where I'll look.  I haven't messed with overclocking as of yet, I figured I will once I start getting into Prepar3d.

Share this post


Link to post
45 minutes ago, mpw8679 said:

It all depends what settings you want to use.  If u want high levels of AA to eliminate shimmering, dynamic lighting, lots of shadows, fly at night, or fly in overcast conditions get the most GPU you can afford.  I do not buy into the whole you need to balance your system theory.  Even if you had an old 2500K cpu P3D v4 would still take full advantage of whatever GPU you choose.  

P3Dv4 will take advantage of the GPU, but if the CPU is only capable of pushing out 15 frames per second, then the GPU only has to do its work on half as many frames each second as it does at 30fps.  In such a scenario, all that GPU may well be unnecessary to accomplish the task at hand.  Push 30 fps in the same scenario, and a lesser GPU may no longer be able to keep up.  Of course with a top-end GPU at the slower frame rate, you might be able to run 8xSSAA or substitute some other workload to keep the GPU gainfully-employed.  But I would never counsel someone running a Sandy Bridge CPU at 4.4 GHz to go whole hog on a 2080Ti unless they were gonna rebuild the rest of their system someday soon.

Regards

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, w6kd said:

P3Dv4 will take advantage of the GPU, but if the CPU is only capable of pushing out 15 frames per second, then the GPU only has to do its work on half as many frames each second as it does at 30fps.  In such a scenario, all that GPU may well be unnecessary to accomplish the task at hand.  Push 30 fps in the same scenario, and a lesser GPU may no longer be able to keep up.  Of course with a top-end GPU at the slower frame rate, you might be able to run 8xSSAA or substitute some other workload to keep the GPU gainfully-employed.  But I would never counsel someone running a Sandy Bridge CPU at 4.4 GHz to go whole hog on a 2080Ti unless they were gonna rebuild the rest of their system someday soon.

Regards

 

Your logic applies quite well to FSX and the earlier P3D versions but it is flawed with V4.  I’m not saying buy a 2080ti to match up with a Q6600 by any means.  I ran a 2500K with a 1080ti for about a year.  I had it tuned for a solid 30 FPS most anywhere.  Zero autogen, minimal traffic, and the likes.  Many times I cruised into a complex airport in low light conditions with overcast then watch my frames drop in half because my GPU saturated.  It’s always a balancing act.  But don’t limit your hardware to balance your system.  Within reason

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, CpnBill said:

Thanks to both of you......this is great info.

 

As for settings....I'd be happy with 30 FPS and the best lighting, shadows,night and overcast I can find.  I also don't want to go drop $700 on a card.  If a 1070 would do this, then maybe that's where I'll look.  I haven't messed with overclocking as of yet, I figured I will once I start getting into Prepar3d.

If you are wanting a nice night environment and nice shadows I think you will be disappointed with a 1070. You will have to lower settings like shadow draw distance to the point you will see the cloud shadows rendering around the plane. Yucky.  What is your max dollar amount you would like to be at?

Share this post


Link to post

Ideally $400 or less, but obviously that can be adjusted.....I'm just old school, can't believe the darn video card is one of the most expensive component. 🙂

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, CpnBill said:

As for settings....I'd be happy with 30 FPS and the best lighting, shadows,night and overcast I can find.  I also don't want to go drop $700 on a card.  If a 1070 would do this, then maybe that's where I'll look.  I haven't messed with overclocking as of yet, I figured I will once I start getting into Prepar3d.

Just to give you some an idea of my experience - I have an Asus GTX 1070 O8G, you will not get a solid 30 FPS in overcast conditions with high AI, complex payware aircraft and detailed airport, and other eye candy turned on.
I've brought the settings right down in Active Sky, but my overclocked GPU still hits 99 - 100% load in overcast conditions.

18 - 25 FPS in cloudy weather, with low dynamic reflections, HDR, extreme complexity, dense autogen, low water detail, 60% AI, complex payware aircraft and detailed airport.
Forget about SSAA in anything other than clear skies, unless all you want to hear are the GPU fans working overtime.

Try to extend your budget or wait until you can afford a Ti card. Most people reckon that you'll be glad that you did.

Edited by F737NG
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

When you say Ti....do you mean 1080 / 2080?  Or would a 1070 Ti do the trick?

 

Also thank you, that's exactly what I'm looking for in your response...

Edited by CpnBill

Share this post


Link to post

Not trying to butt in, but I am running a 6700k at 4.7. OC, I have a 1080 (non Ti) and am perfectly satisfied running at 4k with single monitor at 30hz..... except with overcast condition with AS. I'm ready to bite the bullet on a 2080ti if I was certain it would greatly help in that situation. Any thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
57 minutes ago, CpnBill said:

When you say Ti....do you mean 1080 / 2080?  Or would a 1070 Ti do the trick?
Also thank you, that's exactly what I'm looking for in your response...

You're welcome. 
I can only suggest based on what I have read on these forums. I think that a GPU with the fastest clock speeds and at least 8GB VRAM should be what you are aiming for, given your requirements stated earlier.

I also think that 11GB VRAM cards and those that support Ray Tracing will become 'recommended' in future, especially with murmurings of where development of the rumoured P3Dv5 is heading.

That said, this is all supposition and you can only choose the card that meets your requirements for the amount you can / are willing to spend.

15 minutes ago, strat919 said:

Not trying to butt in, but I am running a 6700k at 4.7. OC, I have a 1080 (non Ti) and am perfectly satisfied running at 4k with single monitor at 30hz..... except with overcast condition with AS. I'm ready to bite the bullet on a 2080ti if I was certain it would greatly help in that situation. Any thoughts?


Here are a couple of discussions about the nVidia 2000-series GPUs to give you some more user-based info:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/547561-rtx-2080-a-performer/

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/550383-rtx-2070-results-in-v44/

Share this post


Link to post
43 minutes ago, strat919 said:

Not trying to butt in, but I am running a 6700k at 4.7. OC, I have a 1080 (non Ti) and am perfectly satisfied running at 4k with single monitor at 30hz..... except with overcast condition with AS. I'm ready to bite the bullet on a 2080ti if I was certain it would greatly help in that situation. Any thoughts?

Oh yes it would help greatly

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

Hi Guys,

I have just finished building my new rig, almost the same as the OP's.

Gigabyte Z370 gaming but with a i7 8700k.

After a lot of research, I settled for the nVidia1070Ti Foundation Edition.

Research showed that to move up to the 1080Ti, the cost penalty of an extra 45% showed only a 2% performance improvement.

I have the 8700k overclocked to 5ghz, but can obtain 5.2ghz but there is instability at those clock rates. All ok doing the bench marks at 5.2, but P3Dv4.4 doesn't like it.

I have only a few ORBX products installed so far, with more to go, but I'm easily getting 40FPS just about everywhere but suffered a big drop to 25FPS flying into FsDreamteams KLAX in PMDG's 737NGX.  

Overclocking the Z370 is dead easy with only a couple of settings to tweak.

Oh, BTW, the i7 is liquid cooled.

Chris.

 

Edited by ChrisDa
spelling
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, ChrisDa said:

Research showed that to move up to the 1080Ti, the cost penalty of an extra 45% showed only a 2% performance improvement.

How did you calculate the '2% performance improvement'?

Memory Bandwidth of 256 GB/sec for a 1070Ti compared to 484 GB/sec for a 1080Ti is nearly 90% better - that's a lot more data being processed in the same amount of time.

Share this post


Link to post

No, I didn't calculate it, it was a direct quote from a website that did an extensive review and bench testing of the nVidia GTX 1070Ti Foundation Edition.

Don't ask me where as I did a lot of research on the subject.

Chris.

 

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, strat919 said:

Not trying to butt in, but I am running a 6700k at 4.7. OC, I have a 1080 (non Ti) and am perfectly satisfied running at 4k with single monitor at 30hz..... except with overcast condition with AS. I'm ready to bite the bullet on a 2080ti if I was certain it would greatly help in that situation. Any thoughts?

I have your exact specs...6700k @ 4.7, 4k 30hz tv, went from a 980 Ti to 2080 Ti and don't regret it. AS weather can't bring me below 30fps, only dynamic lighting at payware airports on occasion if my settings are high and I'm flying into a big event on Vatsim or something.

Ben 

Share this post


Link to post

If one can get hold of two used 1080ti a 2-way SLI configuration using 1080ti is much faster than a single 2080ti, given the CPU is capable.

Share this post


Link to post
18 minutes ago, kaha said:

If one can get hold of two used 1080ti a 2-way SLI configuration using 1080ti is much faster than a single 2080ti, given the CPU is capable.

I believe several reputable testers have found the data supports the opposite.  Unless of course you have data to support your view?

I bought a 2080ti partly on grounds it is actually more cost effective than twin 1080ti's and has none of the SLI drawbacks.

Share this post


Link to post
15 hours ago, bbain1187 said:

I have your exact specs...6700k @ 4.7, 4k 30hz tv, went from a 980 Ti to 2080 Ti and don't regret it. AS weather can't bring me below 30fps, only dynamic lighting at payware airports on occasion if my settings are high and I'm flying into a big event on Vatsim or something.

Ben 

Same here, 8700k, 980ti to 2080ti, no regrets :) (apart from the beasting I'll get if my wife ever finds out!)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Wow you guys are clearly more into this than I am, which is 1.  Awesome....and 2.  I'm jealous.  Kevin, I hope your wife doesn't find out, but if she does, I'll buy the 2080ti for a good deal. 🙂

 

What would just going to a 1070 ti do for what I mentioned above?  I just don't think I can afford to fork over that kind of dough for a 1080ti or 2080ti.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, CpnBill said:

Wow you guys are clearly more into this than I am, which is 1.  Awesome....and 2.  I'm jealous.  Kevin, I hope your wife doesn't find out, but if she does, I'll buy the 2080ti for a good deal. 🙂

 

What would just going to a 1070 ti do for what I mentioned above?  I just don't think I can afford to fork over that kind of dough for a 1080ti or 2080ti.

Neither did I, but I didnt want to regret my choice and spend the next few years wishing I'd spent a little bit more....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
15 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

...Unless of course you have data to support your view?...

You are right, I cannot prove it because I don't have a 2080TI, but I can tell how much fps raised when going from one 1080TI to an SLI configuration. SLI makes best sense when a scenario is GPU bound, GPU load 90% upward (this means 8xSSAA).

 

With this settings, using the Carenado Cessna 152 II at ORBX LOWI (no AI traffic, but overcast with rain😞

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/opcefhdt7p4yhpy/Settings.jpg?dl=0

 

FPS went from 38 to 72. In addition GPU load went down from 99% to 96%. Is a 2080ti capable of doing that? If yes, how cool must a 2080TI SLI configuration be? In the SLI configuration the GPU load value is from the first card, second is lower.

 

Here is an Excel table of the FPS and GPU load values for all AA settings (same Options settings as in the pic above, no AI traffic, but same weather as above):

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ayjg6vji8sfp9j/1080TI SLI.jpg?dl=0

 

This by the way shows that the setup with 1x 1080TI was clearly GPU bound, regardless which AA setting I used. The SLI setup tends to be CPU bound all over.

 

I did those tests just some days ago before and after upgrading my rig. Looking over the SLI FPS values I now was wondering if those multiple values in the low 70s for SLI fps are ok or if I made a mistake. So i redid the test just now and yes, it is like that.

 

And here is a picture of the test scene:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pmleamjst48pd5d/C152II LOWI.jpg?dl=0

 

My rig:

Asus Maximus XI Hero

9900K@4,9 HT off

16 Gb 3200

M.2 PCIE SSD

4K Display

P3D 4.4

 

and.. my wife doesn't know about the 2nd card.....

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now