Deltaair1212

RTX 2070 results in v4.4

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I just installed my MSI RTX 2070 8gb Duke OC into my rig. I swapped it over a GTX 1060 6gb card I had previously. It is paired with an i7-8700K @4.7ghz, and 32 gigs of Corsair Vengeance RAM @2666. I did mildly put some extra OC on the new RTX card just for giggles but it wasn’t anything serious. I did notice that in sim the card runs very warm. I have the three fans set at 70% just to keep the temps reasonable. When flying, I did notice a slight improvement over my GTX card. In situations where I’d normally be in the 30fps I was in the upper 40’s and low 50’s. My settings are a reasonable “medium high”. In cruise with Rex SF, AS4, and UTL running in the background, I am getting a steady 60fps (I have my frames synced with my monitor refresh rate). On the ground at orbx KMBS with the FSW Lear I was averaging 50fps. This was with thick overcast clouds I will note. With my GTX I believe that same scenario would have put me in the 30’s or high 20’s.

overall, I am happy with my purchase but all of this to say is, if you were looking into upgrading to the latest and greatest, you aren’t really missing much. The 2070’s are comparable to the 1080’s so if you already have a 1080, or 1080ti, keep them. Just a friendly heads up. 

Edited by Deltaair1212
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5 minutes ago, Deltaair1212 said:

overall, I am happy with my purchase but all of this to say is, if you were looking into upgrading to the latest and greatest, you aren’t really missing much. The 2070’s are comparable to the 1080’s so if you already have a 1080, or 1080ti, keep them. Just a friendly heads up. 

LOL, this is always the case with the flight sim and the video cards, it's been for years. I'll never ever go and spend an idiotic amounts of money for the latest and greatest, you'll learn...:)

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4 minutes ago, Drumcode said:

LOL, this is always the case with the flight sim and the video cards, it's been for years. I'll never ever go and spend an idiotic amounts of money for the latest and greatest, you'll learn...:)

It wasn’t an “idiotic amount” for me, as I can afford to splurge lol. But that’s not why I upgraded. I did because I was going to do so anyways but I held off because of the mining situation. When it crossed my mind again I searched online for a new 1080ti and it was actually more expensive than the 2070. My 2070 was only $530. If you think $530 is an “insane amount of cash” then you might be in the wrong hobby my friend. At any rate, the card will last me for years so it’ll pay itself off over time 😊. Also, all in all it was an average 15-20fps increase over my 1060. I stated you probably wouldn’t see much of a difference between the 2070 and 1080. But I do incurage those with 1070’s and 1060’s to consider upgrading. 

Edited by Deltaair1212
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3 minutes ago, Deltaair1212 said:

It wasn’t an “idiotic amount” for me, as I can afford to splurge lol. But that’s not why I upgraded. I did because I was going to do so anyways but I held off because of the mining situation. When it crossed my mind again I searched online for a new 1080ti and it was actually more expensive than the 2070. My 2070 was only $530. If you think $530 is an “insane amount of cash” then you might be in the wrong hobby my friend. At any rate, the card will last me for years so it’ll pay itself off over time 😊

My bad, I mixed it up with 2080ti which I was researching last night while getting excited about the VR and getting Oculus Rift. I'm getting old 🙂

Edited by Drumcode

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16 minutes ago, Drumcode said:

LOL, this is always the case with the flight sim and the video cards, it's been for years. I'll never ever go and spend an idiotic amounts of money for the latest and greatest, you'll learn...:)

So P3D v4 doesn’t benefit from the latest hardware?

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1 hour ago, mpw8679 said:

So P3D v4 doesn’t benefit from the latest hardware?

I never said that, but it is well known that switching just video cards isn't going to cure anyone's performance issues is what I meant.

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17 minutes ago, Drumcode said:

I never said that, but it is well known that switching just video cards isn't going to cure anyone's performance issues is what I meant.

That is a very misleading statement.  P3D will take advantage of any GPU you can give it.

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10 hours ago, mpw8679 said:

That is a very misleading statement.  P3D will take advantage of any GPU you can give it.

Yes Matt, but far less than a lot of people believe. In FSX, upgrading the GPU would give very little performance boost, unless you were upgrading from a GTX 570 to a 1080ti for example. This, as most know, is because FSX was very much CPU bound. P3d is different, yes, but while it does put more of the work onto the GPU, it is nevertheless a lot less than some people expect to see.

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Thanks for the information, that's valuable to me. I'm currently on a GTX1070 and was wondering if it made sense to go to a RTX2070 or 2080. I have noticed that my computer gets hammered when there's lots of clouds in the scene (courtesy of ASP4), and was wondering if a better video card will help with that, primarily because at such times I notice that my GPU is running at 100% whereas my CPU typically isn't. Thus it seemed to me like there's a bottleneck at the GPU and a faster model may fix it... Any thoughts about that?

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53 minutes ago, Rockliffe said:

Yes Matt, but far less than a lot of people believe. In FSX, upgrading the GPU would give very little performance boost, unless you were upgrading from a GTX 570 to a 1080ti for example. This, as most know, is because FSX was very much CPU bound. P3d is different, yes, but while it does put more of the work onto the GPU, it is nevertheless a lot less than some people expect to see.

Balanced systems are the key.  A poor GPU paired with a great CPU is going to result in as unsatisfactory an experience as a great GPU with a poor CPU.  As long as the CPU doesnt act as bottleneck, P3D can eat as much GPU and more as you can throw at it...

 

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10 minutes ago, Benjamin J said:

Thanks for the information, that's valuable to me. I'm currently on a GTX1070 and was wondering if it made sense to go to a RTX2070 or 2080. I have noticed that my computer gets hammered when there's lots of clouds in the scene (courtesy of ASP4), and was wondering if a better video card will help with that, primarily because at such times I notice that my GPU is running at 100% whereas my CPU typically isn't. Thus it seemed to me like there's a bottleneck at the GPU and a faster model may fix it... Any thoughts about that?

Honestly if you have a 1070, I would look into the 2060. It’s comparable to the 1070ti. But in some benchmarks, the 2060 has held its own next to the 2070. Which would make it comparable to the 1080. And the 2060 is still under $400 so it’s value to performance ratio is likable. 

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12 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

Balanced systems are the key.  A poor GPU paired with a great CPU is going to result in as unsatisfactory an experience as a great GPU with a poor CPU.  As long as the CPU doesnt act as bottleneck, P3D can eat as much GPU and more as you can throw at it...

 

And you are correct sir. People will be like “I just got a 1080ti and saw no performance increase!” But they have an i3 processor @1.5ghz lol 

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I often see folks expressing disappointment in a GPU upgrade because it didn't give them the performance boost they expected...and by performance boost, they generally mean an increase in frame rates.

The most important performance gain I see when deploying a high-end graphics subsystem in P3D is the ability to sustain a target frame rate under a wider range of operating conditions, especially those that present heavy GPU loads, where a less powerful graphics subsystem does not.  I can get 30 fps in daytime with clear weather on a 1080p monitor with much less than my current RTX 2080Ti (or the dual 1080Tis in SLI before that), but add a 3820x2160 4K monitor, heavy clouds and rain, night with dynamic lighting, etc and the difference becomes very apparent.

You can certainly manage to a good experience by controlling your operating conditions, but if you want to have the flexibility to operate without being hobbled by those limitations, a high-end GPU will bring it--at a cost, of course.  What I like about P3D compared to previous incarnations of ESP is that it will use what you give it...we struggled for years in FSX where deploying the fastest/bestest hardware often produced no meaningful results at all due to VAS, DX9, and other limitations that rendered (pardon the pun) the better hardware irrelevant in many respects.

Regards

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1 hour ago, Benjamin J said:

Thanks for the information, that's valuable to me. I'm currently on a GTX1070 and was wondering if it made sense to go to a RTX2070 or 2080. I have noticed that my computer gets hammered when there's lots of clouds in the scene (courtesy of ASP4), and was wondering if a better video card will help with that, primarily because at such times I notice that my GPU is running at 100% whereas my CPU typically isn't. Thus it seemed to me like there's a bottleneck at the GPU and a faster model may fix it... Any thoughts about that?

If it's clouds that are hammering your performance, then you are likely GPU limited (and a 2070 / 2080 would be a great upgrade). AA processing on cloud layers can contribute to a large proportion of GPU cycles.

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2 hours ago, Deltaair1212 said:

And you are correct sir. People will be like “I just got a 1080ti and saw no performance increase!” But they have an i3 processor @1.5ghz lol 

Exactly. I have to say, I went from a GTX1070 to a 1080ti in P3D and I saw a considerable difference, certainly worth paying the dosh for.

Edited by Rockliffe

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5 hours ago, Rockliffe said:

Exactly. I have to say, I went from a GTX1070 to a 1080ti in P3D and I saw a considerable difference, certainly worth paying the dosh for.

That’s great news! And my whole point of creating this post was to tell the 1080/1080ti users that you aren’t missing much on the 20XX side of things. If you have one of those cards, I say skip this upgrade. Your GPU is plenty fine. But as for my 1060, and 1070/1070ti users, I would consider making the move 😊.

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23 hours ago, w6kd said:

I often see folks expressing disappointment in a GPU upgrade because it didn't give them the performance boost they expected...and by performance boost, they generally mean an increase in frame rates.

The most important performance gain I see when deploying a high-end graphics subsystem in P3D is the ability to sustain a target frame rate under a wider range of operating conditions, especially those that present heavy GPU loads, where a less powerful graphics subsystem does not.  I can get 30 fps in daytime with clear weather on a 1080p monitor with much less than my current RTX 2080Ti (or the dual 1080Tis in SLI before that), but add a 3820x2160 4K monitor, heavy clouds and rain, night with dynamic lighting, etc and the difference becomes very apparent.

You can certainly manage to a good experience by controlling your operating conditions, but if you want to have the flexibility to operate without being hobbled by those limitations, a high-end GPU will bring it--at a cost, of course.  What I like about P3D compared to previous incarnations of ESP is that it will use what you give it...we struggled for years in FSX where deploying the fastest/bestest hardware often produced no meaningful results at all due to VAS, DX9, and other limitations that rendered (pardon the pun) the better hardware irrelevant in many respects.

Regards

This is certainly what I found to be the case going from a 1080Ti to a 2080Ti on my 9700K system.

Where I haven't found any noticeable increase in raw frame rate performance with the 2080Ti, what I have found is the ability to use things like cloud shadows and dynamic lighting now without it affecting performance like it would have with the 1080Ti at the same locations and conditions. The other thing is I find that GPU utilization is much lower with the 2080Ti for the same settings and conditions, with the 1080Ti there would be times when GPU utilization was pegging 100%, where now it never gets even close to that, which means I have more headroom to experiment with higher settings if I choose to do so.

Yes, it does come at a cost, but I was able to sell my old 1080Ti for a handsome price, which offset the cost of the new 2080Ti considerably, and it was worth it to me for the ability to improve my overall simming experience.

 

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On 2/15/2019 at 11:31 AM, DylanM said:

If it's clouds that are hammering your performance, then you are likely GPU limited (and a 2070 / 2080 would be a great upgrade). AA processing on cloud layers can contribute to a large proportion of GPU cycles.

Thank you Dylan, I'm glad my gut feelings weren't baseless! I was considering the 2080, just because if I do the upgrade, i'd rather go as far as my budget will allow. Sadly, the 2080ti is just too much of a stretch right now...

 

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1 minute ago, Benjamin J said:

Thank you Dylan, I'm glad my gut feelings weren't baseless! I was considering the 2080, just because if I do the upgrade, i'd rather go as far as my budget will allow. Sadly, the 2080ti is just too much of a stretch right now...

 

Look into the 2060. It’s Msrp is under $400 even for third party cards like MSI, and EVGA. It packs a powerful punch for its price. In some benchmarks it surpassed the 1080ti with certain games in 4K...

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6 hours ago, Deltaair1212 said:

Look into the 2060. It’s Msrp is under $400 even for third party cards like MSI, and EVGA. It packs a powerful punch for its price. In some benchmarks it surpassed the 1080ti with certain games in 4K...

I'll certainly look into it, but are you sure it'd going to be better than the GTX1070? I'm overall very pleased with the card I have, and would be looking to go for something that would be a lot better than what I have now.

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10 hours ago, Benjamin J said:

I'll certainly look into it, but are you sure it'd going to be better than the GTX1070? I'm overall very pleased with the card I have, and would be looking to go for something that would be a lot better than what I have now.

Here's some benchmarking data for the 2060 -vs- the 2080.

https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-2080-vs-Nvidia-RTX-2060-6GB/4026vs4034

The raw "user rating" numbers (which are quite subjective btw) are about equal, but in terms of the important hardware capability's like rendering and texture detail etc, the 2080 seems to have the clear edge.

It's worth noting that most of these benchmark numbers are taken from FPS (ie, "first person shooter") games, so it's hard to say how that would play out in a simulation like P3D v4.4, but I suspect the 2080 would probably still be a considerably better performer, perhaps not so much in raw frame rates, but more for the ability to increase settings in the sim that would have otherwise dragged down performance on your old GTX 1070.

If you can afford the 2080, and you seemed inclined to move in that direction, I would go for it, I think it should do very well for you.

 

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That’s some very interesting information right there, thank you! Definitely seems like I would benefit from an upgrade. I’ll continue looking and see what might be the best option for me. I’m a little nervous about the 2060, mostly because it has less vram, hence I would consider the 2070 or 2080. How might I expect such a card to impact things such as auto gen density? I understand that clouds stand to benefit from it due to the implementation of antialiasing, but will it also help with the rendering of autogen, or is that still very cpu bound? The reason I am is because I was approaching EDDH the other day and found my FPS dwindling from the locked 30 down to about 22 about looking straight at Hamburg. I do have FTX Germany and it wasn’t the nicest weather out there either... Wondering if a better GPU stands to improve that experience?

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I think it would be useful to know what resolution people are describing above. Thanks!

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So a deal sprung up on Newegg the other day for an RTX2080. I was tempted to get it as it gave 150$ off, but I decided to do something of a bench mark first. My question to you is, as I describe  what I did and what the numbers were, what would be the bottleneck in the system? My specs are in my signature, and my sliders are on the higher end.

I like to benchmark not with the craziest combination of addons, but rather something realistic that I would actually go and use for real. So I took the Aerosoft A319 at DD's KLGA with their New York City addon in the night at a major thunderstorm. The sim put me on runway 4, so I was mostly looking away from the city, but even so, with FPS locked to 30 I tended to get about 24FPS and not a particularly smooth picture. At this point my CPU is on average working 40-50%, with core 1 at 100% and the other five ranging in between 10-40%. GPU is only at 40% or so, sometimes going up to 50%. Amazingly, panning around and looking square at the city, the GPU utilization doesn't go up very much, and neither does the CPU, it seems, yet the FPS is going down to ~15-18 and the sim is noticeably stuttery, but still usable. Taxiing around KLGA repeats these two conditions are anything in between.

So I decided to take it a step further. I have FT's CYYZ, and was astonished at how hard it hits my computer, so I decided to take this same scenerio but put it at CYYZ. This airport has a ton of dynamic lights and is overall a much mroe details airport environment, even though I did turn off the interior and various other tidbits. Starting on runway 5, i was immediately obvious that if I don't look at the normal, the FPS is at 30 and the sim runs smoothly. Looking at the cargo aprons, with all the dynamic lights, is when the GPU utilization goes up to 70%, but even that was fairly rare. Usually it was in the range of 45-65%. Looking at the terminal building is when FPS plummets. That said, moving closer to the terminal, the FPS gets better and the sim becomes much smoother, despite the fact that the FPS would not suggest a smooth experience.

All in all, my feeling is that the CPU is the biggest bottle neck, and while it seems that a better video card can probably help out in rare situations where there are many layers of overcast clouds, I'm not entirely sure it's an investment that makes total sense. Hence I didn't buy the RTX2080. It seems to me that at most a RTX2070 would probably the best bang for buck for me, but that the first upgrade to look at would be a different CPU. How does that assessment sound? Is that somewhat reasonable?

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Delete, dup post....

Edited by pgde

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