Hi, I just installed the trial, but haven't had the chance to try it out yet. I did have one question as it's the primary reason I'm looking for a new ATC program.

When approaching an airport where the end of a STAR continues into the beginning of an approach, am I correct in saying that you won't be provided vectors unless specifically requested? Is there an option to randomly receive radar vectors without specifically requesting them? I've searched here and looked through the manual, but couldn't find anything.

Often in the real world, you'll initially be assigned a STAR, but at some point vectored off this for spacing with other traffic. Sometimes it might be a large shortcut, other times it may be an extended downwind leg. For instance in Hong Kong, 3 out of 4 arrivals will probably be vectored onto final, with only a quarter flying the full STAR/approach as published. Yet at other locations this would be reversed. The challenge of managing this variability during the descent is something I was hoping Pilot2ATC would provide.

 

You will sometimes get vectors to the approach without requesting them, depending on the STAR type and the angle that the STAR positions you to final.  It is not random, as that would be unrealistic, but rather based on real-world like considerations.

Dave

5 hours ago, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

You will sometimes get vectors to the approach without requesting them, depending on the STAR type and the angle that the STAR positions you to final.  It is not random, as that would be unrealistic, but rather based on real-world like considerations.

"Random" is probably an exaggeration, but dependent on other traffic also on approach is realistic. It's to do with maintaining even and aqequate spacing between successive landings. So some aircraft will be given a short-cut to get ahead, and others sent on an even more circuitous route to get them further back. All this with the intent of getting them all down in a timely fashion and maximising the use of the runway. It's a real ATC skill!

Is that what you meant by "based on real-world like considerations"?

This process can often be clearly seen when following aircraft on some of those applications (FlightRadar for example, I think?), the ones which use the transponder inforamtion to track aircraft on a map. I've done this many times with EGCC, my nearest and home airport

How you could implement this in a program is difficult, I can understand that. Maybe "random" but with a small chance, and then -- if possible to detect such -- only at bigger/ busier airports. It would be nice of course to control the AI too, to match, but that's a whole different ball game.

Pete

 

Edited September 3, 20196 yr by Pete Dowson

Thanks for your reply Dave.

Just to confirm, if a STAR/approach meets the required parameters to fly the full procedure, this is what you will receive, every time. And vice versa, if it doesn’t meet these parameters, you will receive radar vectors every single time?

If this is the case, it’s a bit of a shame, as I was hoping for something that ads some variations (probably a better word than random) to each flight. Pete is correct in his description of the subtle variations you receive in real life. Whilst I would never expect all possible scenarios such as shortcuts, direct to’s and extended track miles to be implemented, some sort of vectors/no vectors probability would be great.

This is actually the main reason I’m looking to move on from PF3, as while it provides both options, it required a decision at the planning stage about what type of arrival you would receive. Not exactly realistic or challenging. Not knowing about, and dealing with, subsequent unexpected changes to your arrival is a large part of operating an aircraft.

 

The next update will be implementing a "Random Approaches" option that will not always give the highest precision approach.  So if you select this option, you may be thrown a VOR approach or RNAV approach, rather than the usual ILS approach.

I will look at adding a "random" vectors to final approach.  Of course, for now, you can request vectors to the ILS or RNAV at any time.  Just tell approach "<CallSign> request radar vectors for ILS to runway xx" and you should get vectors to final.  Just be sure to do it early enough, maybe 60 NM out or so in an airliner.

Dave