Long time on/off user of Carenado's B190D for short flights.  Was wondering if anyone is aware of any flight model updates, user made or Carenado's, that would make the B190 more realistic to fly.  Haven't flown a B190D in real life, but I have other aircraft and it's difficult to imagine the B190D flying for real like the Carenado's simulation.  Unfortunately I don't know how to make FDE changes, otherwise I would've done it.  It's unfortunate Carenado doesn't maintain their products and we have no other source of similar products.  

Dave

There are no updates. What's unrealistic in your opinion and what would you change?

Edited November 24, 20196 yr by FDEdev

@FDEdev, thank you.  I don't have a comprehensive answer, but what comes to mind is how it:

1. reacts to changes in the air around it
2. jumps of the runway on takeoff  (There's no way to rotate and have it smoothly take off, no matter load, trim, flaps or not.) 
3. reacts to lowering flaps (The upwards movement and the drag seems too high.)

How do you like flying it?  

1. Are you using a weather add-on?  If yes, a few weather add-ons aren't playing nice with high quality FDEs since they are designed to work with the super stable default aircraft and you need to e.g. turn turbulence settings way down in such cases.

2. I can't get heir to jump off the runway. Quite the contrary. If I rotate only 5kts below V_R with full aft stick, I'm experiencing a tail strike with e.g. flaps 0.

That said, in an aft CG case the 1900 becomes very pitch sensitive (like the real one). On the 1900, the forward cargo compartment must always be loaded first. Only if you run out of space/weight you start filling the aft one.  If you fly e.g. without passengers and only aft cargo, you will be outside the aft CG limit.

Suggest to try e.g. taking off (just for testing) without any payload and 100% fuel to check the rotation and pitch sensitivity at a normal CG.

3. At what speed are you extending the flaps? Even at high weight the maneuvering speed for 0 flaps is roughly 140kts and if you extend the flaps at e.g. 150kts instead of 188, the pitch up effect will be lower (an aft CG will aggravate the situation).

Maintaining the same approach speed I need only ~10% more torque with full flaps than with the flaps up. Drag doesn't seem to be too high IMO. Do you have any real world torque settings for comparison?

 

It's still my favourite turboprop because its rather small but I still have an unobstructed view out of the cockit due to the nacelles being so far back.

Are you using FSX or P3D? 

 

 

Edited November 25, 20196 yr by FDEdev

1. Using Active Sky for P3D with turbulence settings at 25.  I don't experience a problem with other aircrafts, but the B190 may be the smallest I fly.  I may have to lower the turb settings even more.  
2. Appreciate your help with W&B.  Here's what I do to load it and match the ZFW I get from simbrief (I do have a simbrief profile for the B190).  Using P3D's Fuel and Payload menu option, I enter 175 lbs for each pax.  Use number of pax times 55 lbs for cargo, which I distribute as 250 lbs on fwd bag and the remainder, if any, to aft bag.  Finally I zero out the pilot and co pilot stations.  I verify the Empty Weight + Payload equals simbrief's ZFW figure.  Interested in knowing how you do it.  Did the test, no pax or bags, zero trim, and full fuel.  Rotated at about 120kts and it behaved the same.  Once the wheels leave the grown the aircraft pitches up significantly.  I have to use down elevator to control it.  
3. On landing I typically add one notch of flaps at or below 155 kts (the white arc).  2d notch at around 130-120kts and try to keep 120kts for the landing.  I don't have performance figures for it, so I don't have a way to computer speeds.  Suggestions?  

I do like the bird.  Was using the PMDG version for FS9/X and enjoyed it a lot.  It would be great if Carenado where to match its visuals with its systems, but alas, we got what we got.  Appreciate your help.  

David

2 hours ago, SAX702 said:

1.  
2. Interested in knowing how you do it.  Did the test, no pax or bags, zero trim, and full fuel.  Rotated at about 120kts and it behaved the same.  Once the wheels leave the grown the aircraft pitches up significantly.  I have to use down elevator to control it.  
3. On landing I typically add one notch of flaps at or below 155 kts (the white arc).  2d notch at around 130-120kts and try to keep 120kts for the landing.  I don't have performance figures for it, so I don't have a way to computer speeds.  Suggestions?  

Was using the PMDG version for FS9/X and enjoyed it a lot.  It would be great if Carenado where to match its visuals with its systems, but alas, we got what we got.  

2. I'm using the P3D loadout menu and I'm simply trying to keep the CG as close to the original DOW position as possible. 

With no pax/bag and full fuel the TOW is ~15500lbs. Flaps 17  V_1/R = 100 and V₂ is 107kts.  Jumping off the runway is something different than the increasing pitch attitude after unstick.

Without any trim input the speed stabilizes at around 100kts.  I prefer less aft stick during rotation and just trim the nose down after unstick (without elevator input), but that's personal preference. If you e.g. use +1 instead of the default +3 for takeoff, she will settle at V₂ +10, but this trim setting will require more aft stick pressure during rotation.

3. V_APP

16000lbs = 116   

14000lbs = 111    

12000lbs = 106   

10000lbs = 97

hope this helps 🙂
 

Since you are using P3D I can PM you a modified cfg file if you want for a much more realistic engine start without any torque/rpm spiking and a slightly better power lever response.

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 20196 yr by FDEdev

Thank you @FDEdev.  I'll take the .cfg file, please.  

David

PM sent 🙂

Bernt

Edited November 25, 20196 yr by FDEdev

Thank you Bernt.  Did a quick test flight with zero pax/cargo and full fuel tanks.  Handles better with the mod.  I will do a complete flight soon.  Again, thank you.  

David

On 11/25/2019 at 2:04 PM, FDEdev said:

Since you are using P3D I can PM you a modified cfg file if you want for a much more realistic engine start without any torque/rpm spiking and a slightly better power lever response.

 

 

 

Hi Bernt

How can you handle the torque/rpm spiking in the aircraft.cfg?

I just came to fly the B1900 again today and checked the forum here for repaints. I also realized, the aircraft is empty by default and I added passengers and cargo to fly. It´s not too bad then but I think it may be feeling heavier in real life. It´s pretty agile now. 

Dan

 

2 hours ago, blaunarwal said:

How can you handle the torque/rpm spiking in the aircraft.cfg?

It´s not too bad then but I think it may be feeling heavier in real life. It´s pretty agile now. 

Hi Dan,

Since P3Dv2.x you can control fuel flow during start up much more precisely by replacing the single fuel_flow_gain = x line with multiple  fuel_flow_gain.x = x lines 

Concerning the heavy feel, the 1900 is surprisingly agile IRL:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_o4xxZW4o8

regards

Bernt

Hi Bernt

Cool. I found the reference for it in the SDK.

What curve did you use, just linear or do you have real world data?

Regards

Dan

For each aircraft/engine I'm simply experimenting until the startup spool up is approximately according to the real aircraft and the curve isn't linear.

Fine tuning startup requires only a few hours.

I cheated a bit, taking the values from the B120.

fuel_flow_gain.0 = 35, 0.001  
fuel_flow_gain.1 = 40, 0.006   
fuel_flow_gain.2 = 65, 0.007    
fuel_flow_gain.3 = 70,  0.04

Of course I should check for the same engines, but started with the latest Carenado aircraft first. Just checked the relatively new Milviz PC-6 where I found it still uses the constant value. The former DHC-3 Turbine Porter the same. So went back to Carenado but didn´t find alternative data in the 690B Turbo Commander, B350i, C90 or C208B. Now I´m going for a testflight. The startup already tested was very satisfying.

About the youtube video, that´s in airshow configuration, with not pax, cargo and minumal fuel. Certainly not the way it usually behaves 😉 

Dan

4 hours ago, blaunarwal said:

About the youtube video, that´s in airshow configuration, with not pax, cargo and minumal fuel. Certainly not the way it usually behaves 😉 

Don't quite understand the heavy feel issue. E.g. Roll rate/response doesn't change with the loadout and as IRL if you enter the aircraft as a pilot it usually doesn't carry any passengers or baggage, hence the default loadout IMO should always be only with the pilot(s) weight added.  

Furthermore many flightsim users tend to fly with 100% fuel and on most aircraft you are well above MLW and even above MTOW if you have the aircraft fully loaded with passengers and baggage.

Most important, as IRL I enjoy flying with a lightly loaded aircraft the most, e.g. during ferry flights 😉  

Edited December 6, 20196 yr by FDEdev