Prepar3d v4.5 - Slow loading scenery

[stayyn 2]

Hello,

When I fly in P3d and go into descend, the scenery is loading pretty slow. When I‘m on final Approach there are nearly no trees oder buildings, because they‘re loading in so slowley.

Currently I own a i7 6700; GTX970; 16GB DDR5 RAM; an I‘m running P3d on a HDD. 

My question is can I change this through Harware upgrade? And if yes, through what Harware (GPU, CPU, SSD,...)

Thanks!

[TurboKen 222]

You need to upgrade to an SSD, if you don't want to perform a fresh install get a cloning software like acronis and clone your P3d drive to an SSD. 

[stayyn 2]

Alright so no need to upgrade the GPU? 

 

[Bob Scott 7,760]

On 1/30/2020 at 10:43 PM, stayyn said:

When I fly in P3d and go into descend, the scenery is loading pretty slow. When I‘m on final Approach there are nearly no trees oder buildings, because they‘re loading in so slowley.

Currently I own a i7 6700; GTX970; 16GB DDR5 RAM; an I‘m running P3d on a HDD. 

My question is can I change this through Harware upgrade? And if yes, through what Harware (GPU, CPU, SSD,...)

Usually this is caused by the CPU not keeping up with scenery loading.  Is your current CPU overclocked?  If its really a 6700 and not a 6700K then the answer is clearly no...but maybe you have a 6700K (like I'm sure DDR5 memory was also a typo)  An SSD won't fix this...P3D does lookahead caching well in advance of needing the data off the drive, so a faster drive does not improve performance unless you're doing something extreme, like a fighter jet at very high speed.  And a faster GPU also won't help...autogen is a CPU-intensive workload.

Also, if you have gone into the config and set an FFTF value that's very low, it can prevent the scenery loading processes from getting enough CPU time to do their work, especially on a slower CPU.  You can use the Dynamic FFTF utility to reduce the setting for better performance on the ground, and increase it in real time based on altitude (or frame rate).

[TurboKen 222]

On 2/1/2020 at 3:50 AM, stayyn said:

Alright so no need to upgrade the GPU? 

 

No, a faster GPU will mostly benefit with bad weather like storms, clouds and rain. I went from a gtx970 to a RTX2080. I would start with an SSD its not going to hurt the situation, but as bob stated above a faster 6 or 8 core processor WILL decrease scenery loading times.

[Christopher Low 5,414]

I did not have a problem with slow loading autogen on final approach on the PC that I have just replaced. That was an i5 4690k @4.3Ghz/16GB DDR3-1600 RAM/2GB GeForce GTX 770 powered system.....and the simulator plus scenery was installed on a 2TB 7200rpm HDD. That being the case, I do not think that an SSD drive will solve your problem.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Christopher Low

[SteveW 1,792]

The way to check performance is to time how long a scenario takes to load. When a scenario loads up, that puts the entire gamut of the sim in operation. Time to the same place and loaded up more than once for cashed time. Cached scenery loads faster. See if any particular setting or scenery adds too much loading time.

Some might experiment with the CPU. That would involve an AffinityMask to use two three four cores, and so on. We find that as we add each core the speed of loading increases. That's because Windows file handling is heavily multi-threaded.

Example four core CPU operation AM 0011 binary = 3 decimal loads slower than AM 1111 = 15 which = 0 on a four core, that's the same as the No AM or no Jobscheduler section defined in cfg.

If we have HT enabled we can use pairs of Logical processors like so:

11,11,11,01

the pairs on the left load the scenario faster, that's what HT does. We don't pair the first (on the right is core zero) since we don't want to share the core with another sim task.

On a big CPU we might do something like this:

11,11,11,11,01,01,01,01,00,00 = 1045840

I have four straight cores (from the right to left) then four paired cores. That's 8 cores and 12 tasks. I've left the first two cores free of the sim.

This loads the scenario half as fast again with Turbo boost and ten core 9900X. Pairing more cores starts to eat into the main task and reduces simulation smoothness and increases heat and fans. The aim is to stay smooth, not gain fps.

We find as we link more tasks into the sim the sim has more work to do more quickly. So the fill in rate increases. At a point this eats into the sim main task. So we are, as with any complex system, looking for the best compromise and the optimum performance.

Edited February 4, 2020 by SteveW

[Dirk98 354]

10 minutes ago, SteveW said:

 

On a big CPU we might do something like this:

11,11,11,11,01,01,01,01,00,00 = 1045840

I have four straight cores (from the right to left) then four paired cores. That's 8 cores and 12 tasks. I've left the first two cores free of the sim.

This loads the scenario half as fast again with Turbo boost and ten core 9900X. Pairing more cores starts to eat into the main task and reduces simulation smoothness and increases heat and fans. The aim is to stay smooth, not gain fps.

We find as we link more tasks into the sim the sim has more work to do more quickly. So the fill in rate increases. At a point this eats into the sim main task. So we are, as with any complex system, looking for the best compromise and the optimum performance.

This is a very interesting update, Steve. I'll try a similar AM on my 8-core 9900k. Why do you mention Turbo boost specifically? How to turn it on, where is it? Or did you mean overclock in BIOS?

Thank you.

[SteveW 1,792]

Yes, Intel Turbo boost installs with Win10 and you see the CPU speed regulates as the throughput changes its demands. That's the main thing, demand.

[SteveW 1,792]

...With an OC system you may need even less cores for the optimum. Watch heat on HT systems. They do more work and so = more heat.

[SteveW 1,792]

2 hours ago, Dirk98 said:

This is a very interesting update, Steve

I would say it's just another example of the same practice anywhere any software we can  use:

With background or paralleled tasks, HT Logical Processor pairs ',11,' do more work in the same time as a single HT LP ',01,' or  a non HT core '1'.

With monolithic tasks in HT mode we avoid using ',11,' and use ',01,' or ',10,'

The more cores or LPs used, we load files faster, networking is faster, and general system tasks are faster - all highly multithreaded.

Using all LPs might load files faster but can interrupt the resources to the main task. So we are looking for the amount that works best that's four on a four core, but less likely to be so good with ten on a ten core, or indeed 20 in HT mode can be choppy. Depends on a lot of things other than CPU. And if the system is overstretched anyway, AMs won't fix the problem and are not responsible for the headache. AMs only restrict use of LPs and get a bad name.

[Dirk98 354]

3 hours ago, SteveW said:

On a big CPU we might do something like this:

11,11,11,11,01,01,01,01,00,00 = 1045840

 

Now, does Window 10 really like that first core on the right to be unoccupied? Or is it a myth?

Does it look right 11 11 11 01 01 01 01 00 on a 8-core PC?

Thanks.

[SteveW 1,792]

Yes looks good for a try out. When you add LPs and you only get a minor increase in loading speed, that's all you can get,  you are at the capacity of the system.

First core problems not a myth, just a situation you get the sim will organise its tasks from right to left

So to recap No AM in use is in fact AM = 0 and that on an 8 core HT enabled is 65535 = 11,11,11,11,11,11,11,11

The first core LP zero on the right gets the main task, LP1 the next, the entire sim is more or less on the first two cores.

Moving off core zero can help in that some stuff will already be there. So run your PC and before starting the sim see what's going on and aim the first core of the sim, the rightmost One in the AM, away from any activity on the early cores. Or corral exe apps away from the early cores.

Nudging the task manager, by checking or unchecking a CPU LP in Task Manager, after the sim is loaded will cause Task Manager to reorganise tasks and move the main task to an unused core. Some have found an  improvement this way, That simply proves they had other stuff running on the main core of the sim after the sim started.

Task Manager doesn't reorganise the sim as it starts because it is affinity mask zero or whatever we put in the jobscheduler section of the cfg - like it or not.

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by SteveW

[SteveW 1,792]

I get plenty of mail and PMs now about HT and AMs these days, helping performance and working well. So that's quite pleasing.

Also I get plenty of mail about reliable installations of the sim into the stock program files location, with the User group Modify Allow checkbox ticked for addons installed in there to work without run as admin. And also to be able to edit aircraft and panel cfgs without having to klick ok every time to run as admin. Guys are busy.

I have tried to engage some of the naysayers over this and HT AMs. When it comes down to it they don't know what the problem is, they don't get the tech. Eventually they will.

To think when I came to AVSIM those two ideas were somehow made to look wrong. Some still don't get it but the naysayers are dwindling on these subjects and there are definitely some that argued in the past that now convey the mantras. Well done to them, to copy is the best form of compliment.

[SteveW 1,792]

19 hours ago, Dirk98 said:

Now, does Window 10 really like that first core on the right to be unoccupied? Or is it a myth?

Does it look right

on a 8-core PC?

Thanks.

@Dirk. Try these using core zero, and leaving out some on the LEFT rather than the right.

00,11,11,11,01,01,01,01
00,00,11,11,11,11,11,01
 

Reasons:

If you do this

11,11,11,11,11,11,11,01

You might still see spikes on the second LP (0 on the right) which staggers the main task.

When you leave off some cores:

00,00,11,11,11,11,11,01

After so many are removed the spikes in the second LP are gone.

 

Depending on scenery and settings and CPU etc. You might find that the '01,00' on the right is OK, however....

Launch off in a fast jet and fly right to the nearest big town. Fly too fast for the graphics to keep up and you can see the scenery building in the distance, the fill-in.

On some systems the fill in stops, and even when paused the fill in does not complete. If we go to task manager and check or uncheck a CPU LP in the Details Set Affinity, we see the fill-in restarts and goes on to completion.

When this happens try moving the AM around, and so try 00,00,11,11,11,11,11,01 and you may find that the sim continues to fill-in without stalling.

It has to be checked, and also you need to watch the spikes in the first core unused sister LP. If we use all the cores, the system resources have to find somewhere to go, that's in the  0 of the 01.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by SteveW