continued from the other thread...

>Archtx>>This has nothing to do with age. It has eveything to do with>buying a product that works to a reasonable expectation out of>the box and on an average to even well above average computer.> That's what these people have right now, and they expect a>product that works to a reasonable degree when it is>recommended to them by a friend on his website (namely me).>>How would you feel if you went and bought a brand new car, and>then found out it wouldn't go over 35 miles per hour. Then>when you reported that, you were told that if you "tweak">around with the ignition, and then buy a complete new fuel>injection system coming out next year that MIGHT help some. >You are also told, "your problem" is that "we actually built>this car for uninvented new systems that are expected to be>completed within the next one to three years".>>I can't in good faith recommend a product like that to my>readers and still retain credibility with them. They are not>hard core simmers as we have here. MS has gone on record,>that certain features of this new release were designed to>attract new users. It is my opinion that this release sets a>bad example for many of the newcomers that are likely to>encounter it.>>This is not about me, as I am rather technically advanced, as>most the readers here are. I will make it work one way or the>other. But I am not going to say I like having to do it that>way.>>>Bob (Las Cruces, NM)>>This is a terrific, well said statement of where even those of us with high end rigs are. I lack the same candor as Bob, so I will only say thanks Bob for making a point for not just your readers in NM, but other members here at AVSIM as well.BTW...just to add humor to my expensive plight: Velocity Micro Dual X Raptor: $4000Extra Mushkin RAM: $130Shiny new X-52 controller: $105New Flight Simming Desk: $350FSX: D-lux: $70New Charts/Plates and binders to keep them nice: $150Patchberri: $Arm2 19" LCD Monitors: $LegPlaying FSX at 40 FPS during takeoff from JFK with 100% real traffic, max scenery, engine noise so loud the neighbors are hiding in their basement, your significant other serving you coffee in that cute stewardess outfit you bought at the lingerie store, and the entire weekend to fly until you can only confirm the existence of your fingers under Visual Flight Rules: Priceless And that boys and girls is what I'm hoping for. Sorry that I've been negative, but hopefully at least some of you can see that I just really, really, really, want FSX to deliver the goods.

>How would you feel if you went and bought a brand new car, and then found out it wouldn't go over 35 miles per hour. Then when you reported that...Well, if that was the case, I WOULDN'T BUY THE CAR!Am I not mistaken in saying that Microsoft has given each and every one of us a chance to TEST DRIVE this "car" by way of the first and second demo? If you find that it doesn't perform for you - DON'T BUY THE PRODUCT! If you *really really really* still want the car, full well knowing that it won't get over 35 miles an hour on your streets without an ignition tweak and fuel that hasn't been invented yet, feel free to purchase it... but buyer beware.Do you ever buy a car without test driving it? Doubtful.Have you ever purchased software without having a chance to test it? Probably more often than you'd like. In the case of FSX, MS has gone so far as to allow test drives with the demo...Get the demo. Play. Experience. Judge. Then make your purchase decision. Demo2 = Retail. If it doesn't work nice on your PC, it is a pretty strong bet that the retail version won't either. Lather, rinse, repeat. All that said:On my "upper-middle class" computer setup, I am getting perfectly acceptable performance using mid-to-upper-mid range slider settings in the retail FSX. Add in the tweaks to adjust the less-than-optimal autogen layering and adjustments to textures, and I am doing quiiite nicely thankyouverymuch. My car is moving quite swiftly along the simulator highway. So sad to see that I'm passing by people stopped on the side of the road too upset with their purchase to actually get out and drive a bit.> MS has gone on record, that certain features of this new release were designed to attract new users. It is my opinion that this release sets a bad example for many of the newcomers that are likely to encounter it.New users aren't going to be upset when they can't peg the sliders to the left as they did in FS2004 - mainly because they never had FS2004. Since they aren't expecting to be able to do such things, newcomers will tweak and adjust to their needs... and like all of us who are fully enjoying the new sim on moderate rigs, they will enjoy it too - except without the jaded chip on their shoulder that a lot of us veteren sim users seem to have these days. ------------------------------------------------------------------->BTW...just to add humor to my expensive plight: >>Velocity Micro Dual X Raptor: $4000>Extra Mushkin RAM: $130>Shiny new X-52 controller: $105>New Flight Simming Desk: $350>FSX: D-lux: $70>New Charts/Plates and binders to keep them nice: $150>Patchberri: $Arm>2 19" LCD Monitors: $LegPurchasing all this equipment without knowing how the simulator would *actually* perform on it?Priceless(Of course, you may have run the demo already - kudos if you did!)

What bothers me the most about the release of FSX is what it will cost me to run it at the same performance levels I get with FS9. I'll need a new motherboard with SLI $200+, a DX10 vid card with at least 512meg $300-$400, Vista, probably $200+. That's almost $1,000 in upgrades. I'll be flying in FS9 for awhile yet.Dave FisherCYYZP4 Prescott 3.2e 478p 800mhz 1mg CPUP4P800SE Asus Motherboard2.5 gig PC3200 DDR RAM 400MHZGeforce Ti 4200/128Maxtor 80 Gig ATA 133 HD x2WDC WD800 80 Gig HDhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/ng_driver.jpghttp://fs2crew.com/linepilot.jpg

The demo isn't that good of a basis to judge retail on, though. Flying through New York City and trying to get smooth fluid gameplay is very difficult, much more so than at St. Maarten where its basically just water.

>>BTW...just to add humor to my expensive plight: >>>>Velocity Micro Dual X Raptor: $4000>>Extra Mushkin RAM: $130>>Shiny new X-52 controller: $105>>New Flight Simming Desk: $350>>FSX: D-lux: $70>>New Charts/Plates and binders to keep them nice: $150>>Patchberri: $Arm>>2 19" LCD Monitors: $Leg>>Purchasing all this equipment without knowing how the>simulator would *actually* perform on it?>>Priceless>>(Of course, you may have run the demo already - kudos if you>did!)>>Sorry, think my priceless punchline is better ;)Well I'm a gamer as well as a flight simmer, so trust me you'd be jealous if you saw my system in action with ANYTHING on the market, other than this FSX (and probably that too). AS for not knowing how it would perform. I used every bit of info given to us by ACES and MS. According to reports when I bought the system, it would be a Vista system than would support dual cores. It didn't happen. Realize that without supporting more than one core, FSX will be the new FS2000. And believe me, I AM enjoying FSX. It's only the fact that it runs like crap at major airports, and leaves zero room for 3rd party development that gives me problems. I also think you totally missed the OP message, but then you see what you want to see.

The whole problem and what most people are ticked off abvout is the fact that FSX DOES NOT run anywhere near as good as FS9 on a current system. No if's and or buts..... I challenge anyone to prove to me that they get the same performance. Post your avi's using Fraps or whatever utility you like showing your FPS on screen.For MS to come out with a new version of FS and have it perform to a lower staadnard than a 3+ year old version is discraceful for the simple reason it was released for the holiday season for monitary gain. For those of you that haven't heard SP3 for XP was due to be released in Q1 of 2008 now it is being pushed to late 2008 so that tells you that it probably won't be released and that they are focusing on Vista for the most part.As to releaseing a version for hardware that is not out yet implies to me that it is once again a monetary reason once again for the holiday buyin sesaon.Make me look like an idiot for writing this and show us your AVI's with FPS PLEASE..................

So far I've seen one screenshot with decent frame rates in a built up area ...----------------------------------------I'm not a beta tester, and I certainly don't wish to pay for the 'privilege'. Software should run smoothly on release ;)

Watch it, I posted a similar challenge and got a lot of negativity from FSX cheerleaders.To be expexted of course. Those cheerleaders are a loyal bunch. There were some links to the screenshot forum but nothing convincing. One chap is frying (overclocking) his super system and getting 25-30 over Seattle but no sign of AI and it's in a default Cessna for crying out loud! God knows what'll happen when something interesting like a PMDG 747 is ported over.