Noticed a few things/Bugs/Issues

[Bqllzkicker 0]

For the Devs,

I first want to thank you so much for recreating my first jet. I've spent countless hours in this plane and I finally pulled the trigger to buy it for FSX. And sorry if I sound hypercritical...I don't want to buy the xtremeprototypes LR25 because the sounds are not accurate on that. This one is a lot better. 

So...I'll bullet point this up for ease.

 

- Electrical - 

On the real plane, You can have the GPU powered on but it wont just give the plane power without the battery switches on. In real life, I would power the GPU cart up then get into the plane to turn the BATTs on. Never will it be completely powered up. This might just be a limitation to the game or something. Just something I noticed when I first got the plane.

- Model - 

At night with the cabin interior light on, there is some light that bleeds through the root of the wings.

- Environmental -

When you start the first motor up with the cabin air switch off, you only hear the EPV close then. On the second engine start, I believe its more of a faint noise but not as dramatic of a whoosh noise during first motor start.

- Powerplant -

I'm almost certain the real plane (I know a 20 series will do this) will start over the gate. You probably can hot start it in idle when throwing to start. I have witnessed someone throwing an engine to start and immediately going to idle (out of cutoff). I just always check to make sure its in cutoff prior to start...but someone not doing a good enough preflight might get caught with a "what the...!" Lol. Will the the plane simulate engine hot start damage?

T/Rs will deploy in the OFF position. Think this is just a game limitation. Can we research this? I know they stow if deployed and then you go to OFF. 

 

Thank you for your hard work!

Sean

[Flysimware 647]

- Electrical - 

There are 2 battery switches and a backup. Make sure all 3 are off to simulate no power.

- Model -

P3D had better effects and does not bleed light. FSX effects are hard top prevent bleeding for the cabin lights without making the lights too small.

- Environmental -

We can't make the engine sounds change based on cabin air switch as they are recorded sounds.

- Powerplant -

No the plane will not simulate engine hot start damage!

The thrust reverser does have limitations not 100% sure on this question. I would have to speak with my tech pilot who fly's this bird for his job.

 

 

[capceo 117]

14 hours ago, Bqllzkicker said:

For the Devs,

I first want to thank you so much for recreating my first jet. I've spent countless hours in this plane and I finally pulled the trigger to buy it for FSX. And sorry if I sound hypercritical...I don't want to buy the xtremeprototypes LR25 because the sounds are not accurate on that. This one is a lot better. 

So...I'll bullet point this up for ease.

 

- Electrical - 

On the real plane, You can have the GPU powered on but it wont just give the plane power without the battery switches on. In real life, I would power the GPU cart up then get into the plane to turn the BATTs on. Never will it be completely powered up. This might just be a limitation to the game or something. Just something I noticed when I first got the plane.

- Model - 

At night with the cabin interior light on, there is some light that bleeds through the root of the wings.

- Environmental -

When you start the first motor up with the cabin air switch off, you only hear the EPV close then. On the second engine start, I believe its more of a faint noise but not as dramatic of a whoosh noise during first motor start.

- Powerplant -

I'm almost certain the real plane (I know a 20 series will do this) will start over the gate. You probably can hot start it in idle when throwing to start. I have witnessed someone throwing an engine to start and immediately going to idle (out of cutoff). I just always check to make sure its in cutoff prior to start...but someone not doing a good enough preflight might get caught with a "what the...!" Lol. Will the the plane simulate engine hot start damage?

T/Rs will deploy in the OFF position. Think this is just a game limitation. Can we research this? I know they stow if deployed and then you go to OFF. 

 

Thank you for your hard work!

Sean

You're absolutely right about the GPU. Unfortunately, this is a bit of sim limitation. But yes, the GPU won't connect to the battery charging bus without at least one battery relay closed.

You're also right about the EPV valve closing. Unfortunately, it's impossible to record an engine start that begins with the EPV already closed, so we just have to live with hearing it on both starts. It annoys me too, and I'm the one who created the sounds lol.

Believe it or not, the 35 won't start over the gate. Ask me how I know. If you engage the starter with the thrust lever in idle, it will never light off. At that point, you can just move the thrust lever into cutoff, then right back up to idle, and the sequence will continue normally. Definitely a mistake I've only made once!

The TR issue is also a sim limitation, but if you look closely, they actually aren't deploying. You'll get a quick flash of the DEPLOY light, but they don't actually come out.

[Bqllzkicker 0]

On 3/18/2020 at 3:56 AM, capceo said:

You're absolutely right about the GPU. Unfortunately, this is a bit of sim limitation. But yes, the GPU won't connect to the battery charging bus without at least one battery relay closed.

You're also right about the EPV valve closing. Unfortunately, it's impossible to record an engine start that begins with the EPV already closed, so we just have to live with hearing it on both starts. It annoys me too, and I'm the one who created the sounds lol.

Believe it or not, the 35 won't start over the gate. Ask me how I know. If you engage the starter with the thrust lever in idle, it will never light off. At that point, you can just move the thrust lever into cutoff, then right back up to idle, and the sequence will continue normally. Definitely a mistake I've only made once!

The TR issue is also a sim limitation, but if you look closely, they actually aren't deploying. You'll get a quick flash of the DEPLOY light, but they don't actually come out.

Roger that. Glad to know about a 30 series. I always assumed it could, but never seen it happen in real life in regards to starting. Lol. After it happened to me in the 20 series, figured they were the same. 
 

As for the gpu, wish they could model this. Bc it’s just not realistic. Guess I could just put batt power on and then connect. 
 

If the sounds ever get a refresh, could we pop the EPV CB just to start without the valve movement? I’m really trying to go back in time from memory on this. 
 

Starting to regret this purchase sadly. I’ll give it a couple months, but sometimes ignorance is bliss with some of these planes. Its good work, but doesn’t make me feel the same as lets say Level-D. Sounds and smells man, it’s hard to recreate.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[Bqllzkicker 0]

On 3/17/2020 at 9:12 PM, Flysimware said:

- Electrical - 

There are 2 battery switches and a backup. Make sure all 3 are off to simulate no power.

- Model -

P3D had better effects and does not bleed light. FSX effects are hard top prevent bleeding for the cabin lights without making the lights too small.

- Environmental -

We can't make the engine sounds change based on cabin air switch as they are recorded sounds.

- Powerplant -

No the plane will not simulate engine hot start damage!

The thrust reverser does have limitations not 100% sure on this question. I would have to speak with my tech pilot who fly's this bird for his job.

 

 

Sim limitations to the sim. The T/Rs deploy momentarily in the OFF position, and then quickly deploy. Just ask him when he is taxiing out to deploy the T/Rs in the OFF position and see what happens. If going from ARM, deployed, to OFF...they should stow. But they started in the OFF position.

But does the game just automatically think, “Hey, he called for T/Rs. Lets give him T/Rs” when the switch is off.

[C525B 86]

19 hours ago, Bqllzkicker said:

As for the gpu, wish they could model this. Bc it’s just not realistic. Guess I could just put batt power on and then connect. 
 

If the sounds ever get a refresh, could we pop the EPV CB just to start without the valve movement? I’m really trying to go back in time from memory on this. 
 

Starting to regret this purchase sadly. I’ll give it a couple months, but sometimes ignorance is bliss with some of these planes. Its good work, but doesn’t make me feel the same as lets say Level-D. Sounds and smells man, it’s hard to recreate.

Honestly man (I mean this to be helpful), I think you're setting an overly high bar for this add-on...especially if you're still using FSX.  The LD767 was a remarkable add-on, but the only aircraft that are directly comparable are also airliners.  Think about the effect of diminishing returns: the code required to make the last 1 or 2 systems work realistically (i.e. the reversers or the sound of the EPV) may be 100x more complex than the rest of the airplane, and that's why you see people talking about "sim limitations".

Corporate aircraft just don't get that much love.  Trust me when I say the FSW Lear has far more going for it than its competitors (Carenado).  Plus, the Lear was released in 2015 and the dev is still here pushing out big updates.

Edited March 21, 2020 by C525B

[ark 1,295]

On 3/20/2020 at 9:17 PM, Bqllzkicker said:

Its good work, but doesn’t make me feel the same as lets say Level-D.

Well, the way I look at it is the FSW Lear35 plus FSX represents something in the ballpark of $100. Now, to be fair, let's  add in the cost of that 'game ready' computer system (even though it can be used for other purposes) at say $3000, so our desk top Sim total is about $3100. And once you have it hourly use costs are nil.

Although I don't have Learjet specific info, my understanding is new Level-D full motion sims (didn't check on ebay! ) are in the $5 to $12+ million ballpark, and depending on the Sim, just 1 hour of Sim time could set you back $1000 or so.

 So all in all, the FSW/FSX or P3d alternative seems pretty good to me despite the sim's limitations. However, I recognize one's background can certainly be a major factor in the Sim experience. To each his own.

In case you are not aware, the FSW Lear35A was modeled, to the extent possible, after the Lear35A that Capt Joe, FSW's tech advisor, flies as his 'day job' . You may also be interested to know that in the not to distant future the FSW Lear will have a UNS-1 FMC upgrade package available which should add significantly to the overall realism of the sim experience.

Al

Edited March 22, 2020 by ark

[capceo 117]

On 3/20/2020 at 11:17 PM, Bqllzkicker said:

Roger that. Glad to know about a 30 series. I always assumed it could, but never seen it happen in real life in regards to starting. Lol. After it happened to me in the 20 series, figured they were the same. 
 

As for the gpu, wish they could model this. Bc it’s just not realistic. Guess I could just put batt power on and then connect. 
 

If the sounds ever get a refresh, could we pop the EPV CB just to start without the valve movement? I’m really trying to go back in time from memory on this. 
 

Starting to regret this purchase sadly. I’ll give it a couple months, but sometimes ignorance is bliss with some of these planes. Its good work, but doesn’t make me feel the same as lets say Level-D. Sounds and smells man, it’s hard to recreate.

 

Thanks for the reply.

Sorry to hear you regret the purchase. All I can say is that this is, by far, the most complete and comprehensive representation of a 30 series Learjet available for a desktop flight simulator anywhere.

Honestly, most of the time we have the batteries on long before the GPU is ever brought to the airplane.

As for pulling the breaker to get rid of the EPV sound, that isn't how the system is designed in real life. The valve fails to OPEN in the absence of bleed air/vacuum. So if you pulled the breaker prior to engine start, it would fail OPEN which would mean the sound would never go away. The sound you hear on engine start is the valve closing, not the valve opening.

[richjb2 195]

On 3/18/2020 at 2:56 AM, capceo said:

Believe it or not, the 35 won't start over the gate. Ask me how I know. If you engage the starter with the thrust lever in idle, it will never light off. At that point, you can just move the thrust lever into cutoff, then right back up to idle, and the sequence will continue normally. Definitely a mistake I've only made once!

Correct in the LR35 with the DEECs.  With the LR45, the engines will not start if they are not advanced to idle before the start switch is pressed, also because of the DEECs.  Like you say, "ask me how I know!" 😖  

However, with the older EECS, I believe they will start and will likely hot start if the thrust levels are brought out of idle before 10% on an engine start.  When I road side-saddle in the Level C simulator with my fingers on the "disaster switches", that was one of things we would watch for and would be ready to give a hot start on if the crew didn't start the airplane using the proper procedures.  In the four years I flew the airplane, I never put that on the test....luckily.  However, we had another pilot who did, we think because he mixed up Lear 45 and Lear 35 procedures.  He got a hot start. 

I miss this airplane!

Rich Boll