Air Marshal uses deadly force

[John_Cillis 2,406]

"Where is the compassion expressed for things American when we have problems?.Blame,ridicule,disrespect directed at us seems to be the norm.Understanding support,I think not."I know we've both traveled overseas and knowing that I find it amazing we can have two completely different takes on this. Americans do receive compassion from abroad when we have challenges. Remember that there is still a huge portion of the world that doesn't have the means to make it to these boards or elsewhere. They don't appear in their media because they don't ape before the cameras in a way that sells news. If you look no further than our own members here, many are from abroad and share the same concern for us.You also have to look at the U.S. through the eyes of those abroad. We've both been to Italy and I worked there for a time--just use Italy as an example. Did you turn on the TV while you were there? Of the shows ported over from the States, how many showed people living in one room flats with three or four generations under one roof? People overseas see us as invincible and quite often don't know what to say when we have our challenges. They seem so insignificant compared to their own.Anyway, I don't feel blame, ridicule and disrespect at us the norm. It's what some want us to see--but if there's any difference in the way our challenges are viewed, it's that they are often viewed with curiousity, confusion and silence because we look so great--as in well off--as a nation that such things couldn't possibly challenge us.Having said all that, the topic at hand is about a man being shot by the Air Marshals. I am sorry it happened, but at the same time it will serve as a warning that the Marshals are out there and will do what they're trained to do. I'm sorry to see a life sacrificed to show that, but it also sounds like this was one tormented person--I hope he is in a better place.-John

[Guest Shalomar]

FLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.If you think you're in ####, keep going. ChurchillYou hit the nail on the head about invincibility. My views about people have changed a lot since I took two female friends to the beach. That was my first trip since the Tsunami, and I cannot even begin to describe the smiles from women of certain skin colors. That day I read on the beach a book by the doctor who was stranded with cancer at the South Pole. I wanted to find out why she had wanted to go there- her life was worse before. Now Michele is on her second, experimental, round of chemo.Invincible? NO!!! But these colors don't run.Merry Chriustmas and a Survivable New year:-beerchug

[Guest beana51]

Hi John,sorry I get a wee excited. My recent limited travels have been limited,thats for sure.It may be, the experiences you and I had in Italy,for example ,was the fact we were both willing to assimilate ourselves into their daily life.Like you,I thought the people were just great. I have also visited Canada,Quebec in particular. Most,don't like anything American.I was able to solve some small problems by asserting that I'm an Italian living in NY.There is a large "Calabrise" population in Toronto tho.The same,only more so,was a visit to Mexico. I love Bull fighting,Again ,I say,I'm an Italian living in Texas, The people were warm,but they don't like "Gringos"It amazing,the fares got cheaper,the rooms were available,and I had to endure the knowing winks,that I somehow I was one of them,and not American.I felt terrible.Meanwhile we can"t keep them out of the hated USA? To use an other example.In the currant conflict in the mid east.Who are our real allies.Were it not that we are good customers,for the oil,and pay through the nose,how long would we be tolerated there. I did spend a few days in France also.The French don't like anyone,not even themselves.We all know of the assistance ,or lack of by these people. I don't know if you visited the war memorials scattered all over Europe.I visited the huge grave site in Italy near Monti Casino. Sobering my friend.A lot of our kids there.Of course now ,they are almost forgotten,except by the lord that is. The USA is not perfect,all have the freedom here to beef about it.Many ,under the guise of the first amendment,can express themselves any way they want to, often in in outrageous ways. We can disagree,non violently,its our right.Where else can you do this.Try this in that other world.Saddam,and others would not agree with us.Yet ,he gets a trail,instead of havening his head cut off. The TV,I had, in a first rate hotel ,featured only one English program.CNN,and Algezari.The rest reminded of the waste land at home on TV.. RAI,was interesting to watch,but they talk to fast. What a treat that was.Altho news papers provided news.Like the NFL scores. I have children,I have Grandchildren also.They seem as numerous as the leaves on a tree.I love them,as I love all small innocent people.I do get cynical of the future.Each generation does.And in my life time each generation gets in some conflict.The young are the ones who pay the price. Taking this America for granted is dangerous.Don't delude yourself that all will be the same 10,20,30,40,50,60,yrs from now.I have gone through those numbers.There is always change.Hopefully for the better,but you have to be diligent to keep it.You have to be prideful in your country,and if you must,defend it like many,many,have,often with their lives. "Duty,Honor,Country",is not some meaningless slogan.Many have structured their lives on these words.Thank You John for your thoughts.If I don't get the chance, "MERRY CHRISTMAS" CIAO! VIN

[aerdt 0]

I think this incident was completely avoidable and maybe the Air Marshal should have been trained a little bit better in human psychology.First of all, noone who is serious about blowing up an airliner (or anything) would announce his intensions running across the plane and screaming of having a bomb, unless he is indeed unstable and off the meds.Secondly, reports indicate that he had an argument with his wife on the plane and when he ran across the plane he was followed by his wife who had screamed that he was mentally-ill and off his meds.Thirdly, with all the airport security it would have been almost impossible to bring an explosive device on board. Granted, this plane came from South America, so airport security might be on another level.It was just a crazy guy making some really bad decisions, which ultimately cost his life. I actually had to shake my head when they ultimately blew up the bag of the deceased on the tarmac. That was a tad over the edge, don't you think?Cheers.

[Sonar5 3]

And my contention is thatFirst of all, ANYONE who is serious about blowing up an airliner (or anything) and announces his intentions running across the plane and screaming of having a bomb, is indeed UNSTABLE and who cares if they are on meds or not.You said:"I think this incident was completely avoidable and maybe the Air Marshal should have been trained a little bit better in human psychology."And I am satisfied he was trained properly to stop his target from advancing his stated crime.You said:"I actually had to shake my head when they ultimately blew up the bag of the deceased on the tarmac. That was a tad over the edge, don't you think?"NO, it is proper procedure to detonate an unknown device. Would you rather have seen a Bomb Tech blown up and killed as he opened it up? You can shake your head all you want. In this case, it was the right thing to do.There are many instances in the past where a hijacker, YES, declares they have a bomb. They are all NUTCASES, and mentally deficient, IMHO, and I guess this TERRORIST should have stopped. He was ok enough to state he had a bomb.That Agent performed his duty that my tax dollars paid for him to do. he protected lives in this case, apparently hit his intended target and nothing or no one else, and the only one dead was the ALLEGED CRIMINAL who broke the law.I have heard enough on this to state it was a Justified action in my opinion.

[jagabom 21]

That's the way life goes. You flirt with death, death flirts with you!JimCYWG

[Guest Shalomar]

FLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.AS LONG AS We are changing headlines shall we cut to the chase? I am alive and he is dead. We are both said to be bipolar so what is the real difference?ONe lettter in the alphabet. S WHEN I DECIDE whether to be afraid, I lookk at my dog AND i settle the issue.

[Guest]

Yes, a lot of the negativity about the US boils down to envy and misreporting things (which itself boils down to 90% envy and 10% language barriers).Here the shooting was reported as if the air marshalls who acted were coldblooded murderers gunning down a mentally unstable man who joked about having a bomb with no provocation at all.That's indeed the story as some ultra-left people in the US have (I've been told) reported it, leaving it likely that the paper who printed it here just used unreliable US sources for their data either because they're biassed (highly likely given the way our press leans) or because they're gullible (also likely, they WANT to believe the US is evil).90% of people here use such reports as their sole means of information, and thus get the entirely wrong impression about what's going on in your country.Repeat such a thing a dozen, a hundred times, and you have a population truely indoctrinated to the idea that the US are a bloodthirsty society where the Government randomly shoots people for no other reason than that they're either opposed to them or are not bringing in enough money, a Govenrment that does the same with other countries as well, attacked Afghanistan and Iraq without provocation for purely economic gains.

[Guest saudi_777]

Oh Dear.... Vin, please don't resort to writing very long rebuttels without properly understanding the meaning behind one's words. I only said "SNAFU" as a way of describing how bad this situation is with regards to air safety and national security, NOT to question in anyway the actions of the air marshalls with this man. And I for one see nothing wrong with what the air marshalls did to this man, with regards to the threats that the man made according to what all of the news sources are saying. So, chill out, dude!!!! :-waveCheers,

[Sonar5 3]

What I CHOOSE to do when making it easier to follow my own posts is my choice.If I want to change the subject line, I can do as I please.Don't agree with it, oh well. :-) :-)IMHO, this is one more criminal I don't have to worry about blowing something up.*****************You said:>>AS LONG AS We are changing headlines shall we cut to the>chase?

[Guest]

how could he be serious about blowing up an airliner? why wouldn't he have stated his intentions DURING the flight, not on the ground in an argument with a woman, and when he got outside the airplane?Anyway I find it disturbing how there are no weapons at the disposal of the police forces around the wealthest nation in the world except pistols which will probably kill you

[Shaka 2]

>Anyway I find it disturbing how there are no weapons at the>disposal of the police forces around the wealthest nation in>the world except pistols which will probably kill youUnfortunately, current events dictate that this is how it has to be. If a terrorist has any life left in him, he will still try to detonate his bomb, or whatever. This is the same reason that the British police killed that Brazillian guy on the subway a few months back. They never shoot-to-wound, and they are unlikely to use less-than-lethal weapons when anyone but the suspects life is on the line. It is a horrible tragedy that both these men were innocent, but the moral is "If the police are pointing guns at you, you should do what they say.". If that guy had listened to the police, he might still be in trouble (for declaring he had a bomb), but at least he would be alive. I fell pity for everyone involved.- Martin

[Guest]

>I think this incident was completely avoidable and maybe the>Air Marshal should have been trained a little bit better in>human psychology.>They had all the training they need. Someone claims he has a bomb, you blast him to kingdom come, period.No "sensitivity training" needed, just marksmanship.>First of all, noone who is serious about blowing up an>airliner (or anything) would announce his intensions running>across the plane and screaming of having a bomb, unless he is>indeed unstable and off the meds.>Which describes most idiots who would indeed blow up an airliner while they're on board, case point proven.>Secondly, reports indicate that he had an argument with his>wife on the plane and when he ran across the plane he was>followed by his wife who had screamed that he was mentally-ill>and off his meds.>So? Ever heard of accomplices?They could well have been a team staging a fight in order to remove suspicion.>Thirdly, with all the airport security it would have been>almost impossible to bring an explosive device on board.>Granted, this plane came from South America, so airport>security might be on another level.>With US airport security it's a breeze, as is shown time and again during tests of the system.In fact, security in Colombia is likely stricter than in the US because they've been trained for decades to deal with terrorists and other violent groups like the Cali cartel.>It was just a crazy guy making some really bad decisions,>which ultimately cost his life. I actually had to shake my>head when they ultimately blew up the bag of the deceased on>the tarmac. That was a tad over the edge, don't you think?>no, it was standard procedure. Not knowing the potential boobytraps and triggering mechanism of a possible bomb hidden inside a container you take no risks and blow up the container.You're not going to look first if there really is a bomb inside.Seems the US are finally getting something right in their security system and starting to take threats seriously enough to deal decisively with them rather than spend months debating what the most "sensitive" response should be.

[Guest Adverse Yawn]

Give a man a gun, and sooner or later he will find an excuse to use it.

[LAdamson 240]

>Give a man a gun, and sooner or later he will find an excuse>to use it.I have many of them, and DO use them on targets...Oh, BTW, the Air Marshall did exactly what I would have hoped he'd do!L.Adamson