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Air Marshal uses deadly force

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Sad, but necessary. If that guy had a bomb, he could have hurt a lot of people.Jeff

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I know--that's one reason I am not an Air Marshal--I couldn't handle that type of decision and from what I have read, it sounded like the only course of action that could be taken.-JC

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>I know--that's one reason I am not an Air Marshal--I couldn't>handle that type of decision and from what I have read, it>sounded like the only course of action that could be taken.>>-JC I could. [h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]AMD 64 4000+|ASUS K8V DELUXE|SAPPHIRE ATI X800XT PE|MUNCHKIN 3200|80 gig SATA|DELL 1905FP 19" LCD|TRACKir PRO|PFC JEPPESEN MOONEY YOKE|CH PRO PEDALS|

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"I could."I'm sure some can and if I chose to be in that role, that's what I would have to do. That's why some of us choose to become police, FBI, DEA, etc... I suspect I could if my family or life was at stake. But I couldn't place myself in a profession where I had to make such a call every day. Any professional will tell you that deadly force is a decision which, right or wrong, they reflect on for every hour of the remainder of their life. Those that don't care or don't give their decisions thought I suspect are the ones that end up starting the bar brawls and fights trying to prove their bravado extends beyond a gun. And it's funny, they usually are the ones who end up leaving the profession.-JohnEdit: I should add to that, one of my mentors was a retired cop who wanted something to do, so came to work at a little inn where I had found a job two decades ago. I think he had to use deadly force once in his career--justified as it looks like this instance was. He said he thought about it every day of his life afterwards--not that it haunted him, but just that the thought of taking life is very overwhelming. He was (and I hope still is though he must be pushing 90 now) a great man and I learned a lot of life lessons from the guy..

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Taking a life is one of the most horrible things that a person could do, just the thought of having to make that split second decision if they don't know for sure. In this case I am sure that this marshal did not have 100 percent proof that this guy had the bomb but he had to act, he could not have left it to chance. The weight this man will carry for the rest of his life will be great, I just hope that he is one that can cope with it. I am with Randy though, I most certainly could do the job if I had too. It is far easier if my life, or that of my family is in danger, beyond that it gets a lot harder to make the call I think. Well those thoughts aside I wish the best to all of those that were involved in this and I hope that they can find peace in another unfortunate human encounter. Philip Olsonhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpg

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I for one feel much more safe when flying with armed Marshall's on board.The pilots are already barricaded,in the cockpit,unarmed. They should carry a sidearm however. I would feel even more safe if they did. What with shoe bombs,and other devices which can be assembled on board,there is a possibility a tragedy can happen.Just recently the 9/11 commission reported an attack will happen,no ifs or buts,but will happen. So now an officer is setting there,a guy acts up, I got a bomb he announces,you got a split second.What do you do?of course training factors in.Worst case scenery,a bomb goes off, kills a lot of people,the air Marshall hesitated,he survives.I can assure you he would be held accountable.Now of course ,the guy had no bomb,and some will probably hold the airmarshall accountable.However they,the marshalls, do have the final word. No one likes this.There are people who want to kill us out there.No difference if he fits the description of a terrorist,or he is a nut! Others over Penna.,high in the sky, on 9/11 wish they had a couple of armed Marshall's with them. You don't do things threatening on a plane,ship, subway,and expect not to be challenged.Nor do you yell fire in a theater!. The way I see it,its a good example for others to take note of.The system works. THIS IS NOT A SAFE WORLD! VIN

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FLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.The only way I could possibly justify it to myself would be "for a greater good". A dirty bomb in an airport, more at stake than me and him. Him being responsible in a big part for the decision. And my not being "sure". Merry Christmas and a Survivable New Year:-beerchugThis ain't over, sorry

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Sound's like suicide by cop:-roll

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*Sigh* Yet another SNAFU.... :-roll

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FLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.A simple situation is never simple. Now the "understanding" and the blame game begins. Remember how long we have been given to "make up our mind what should have been done".Yet another Richard Jewell? Not on my watch. And I am bipolar.Merry Christmas and a Survivable New Year:-beerchug

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maybe I'm missing something, but the story claims he said he had a bomb, yet in no description was that even stated? He complied about getting off the airplane, but refused to put down his bag, and moved towards them, then they shot him?

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"maybe I'm missing something, but the story claims he said he had a bomb, yet in no description was that even stated? He complied about getting off the airplane, but refused to put down his bag, and moved towards them, then they shot him?"Sounds right, and if I were an Air Marshal I would have done just that. With such threats there's no second chances, and had it been a real bomb it would have harmed a great number of people. My only concern is it sounds like English wasn't his first language, but I can't tell that for certain from the scanty information posted. Even if he said something unintelligble, I suppose the Air Marshals did what they had to do. There's no room for guessing at what he said and they had to make a split second, instinctive decision. Which goes back to my saying I am glad I am not an Air Marshal or in Law Enforcement. What a tough situation to be confronted with!-John

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I hope not Donny, Seems these like what ever this country does is always held up to a different standard.Double guessing is a game.Such experts?,if they were in danger ,the comments would be far different. Cut a head off?,no problem,watch our towers go down?,no problem Rescue the Saudi from Saddam,? No problem,help get rid of Herr a really bad dude?Clean up the Pacific? no problem. Today is "Pearl Harbor Day",those thoughts are a problem.Taking precautions for the general safety of the innocents in our country is no "Snafu".It represents a major effort to do just that,protect us from those who do not wish us well. The most troubling thing about this whole thing,was the "Joy" expressed when 9/11 happed from certain sections of the world. Unfortunately ,Aviation is a vehicle to which those who are at war with us will use,so the security is justified. We may have to start using the Israel method of Air travel security.As tough as it is over there,they still have problems. Recently an Iranian Air liner went down. Immediately our out poring of concern was expressed here on this international forum.Where is the compassion expressed for things American when we have problems?.Blame,ridicule,disrespect directed at us seems to be the norm.Understanding support,I think not. Yes Donny, It will be "CHRISTMAS" soon,and that symbol is exact ally what they want to destroy. For that is the "spirit of good will to all men".But unfortunately it is elusive in in these times. Iam sure some reading this will say, the Ole coot, he forgot his pills today.However, it may be the not so subtle incendiary remarks expressed here sometimes which trigger an honest reply. If it offends,then those who monitor this,should apply the rules equally. There was a "Greatest Generation", This too, is a great generation.The previous, freed us from word Fascism,and Communism,at an awful price.I hope this generation does not have to pay that price again, really! "MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL" VIN

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FLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.If it took losing my life to guarantee my fellow mental patients always get at least the same rights accorded criminal defendants, I would not hesitate. I have been striving toward that very elusive goal for over ten years.Many things are worth dying for. None are worth, to me, killing for.Ghandi Paraphrased

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"Where is the compassion expressed for things American when we have problems?.Blame,ridicule,disrespect directed at us seems to be the norm.Understanding support,I think not."I know we've both traveled overseas and knowing that I find it amazing we can have two completely different takes on this. Americans do receive compassion from abroad when we have challenges. Remember that there is still a huge portion of the world that doesn't have the means to make it to these boards or elsewhere. They don't appear in their media because they don't ape before the cameras in a way that sells news. If you look no further than our own members here, many are from abroad and share the same concern for us.You also have to look at the U.S. through the eyes of those abroad. We've both been to Italy and I worked there for a time--just use Italy as an example. Did you turn on the TV while you were there? Of the shows ported over from the States, how many showed people living in one room flats with three or four generations under one roof? People overseas see us as invincible and quite often don't know what to say when we have our challenges. They seem so insignificant compared to their own.Anyway, I don't feel blame, ridicule and disrespect at us the norm. It's what some want us to see--but if there's any difference in the way our challenges are viewed, it's that they are often viewed with curiousity, confusion and silence because we look so great--as in well off--as a nation that such things couldn't possibly challenge us.Having said all that, the topic at hand is about a man being shot by the Air Marshals. I am sorry it happened, but at the same time it will serve as a warning that the Marshals are out there and will do what they're trained to do. I'm sorry to see a life sacrificed to show that, but it also sounds like this was one tormented person--I hope he is in a better place.-John

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FLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.If you think you're in ####, keep going. ChurchillYou hit the nail on the head about invincibility. My views about people have changed a lot since I took two female friends to the beach. That was my first trip since the Tsunami, and I cannot even begin to describe the smiles from women of certain skin colors. That day I read on the beach a book by the doctor who was stranded with cancer at the South Pole. I wanted to find out why she had wanted to go there- her life was worse before. Now Michele is on her second, experimental, round of chemo.Invincible? NO!!! But these colors don't run.Merry Chriustmas and a Survivable New year:-beerchug

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Hi John,sorry I get a wee excited. My recent limited travels have been limited,thats for sure.It may be, the experiences you and I had in Italy,for example ,was the fact we were both willing to assimilate ourselves into their daily life.Like you,I thought the people were just great. I have also visited Canada,Quebec in particular. Most,don't like anything American.I was able to solve some small problems by asserting that I'm an Italian living in NY.There is a large "Calabrise" population in Toronto tho.The same,only more so,was a visit to Mexico. I love Bull fighting,Again ,I say,I'm an Italian living in Texas, The people were warm,but they don't like "Gringos"It amazing,the fares got cheaper,the rooms were available,and I had to endure the knowing winks,that I somehow I was one of them,and not American.I felt terrible.Meanwhile we can"t keep them out of the hated USA? To use an other example.In the currant conflict in the mid east.Who are our real allies.Were it not that we are good customers,for the oil,and pay through the nose,how long would we be tolerated there. I did spend a few days in France also.The French don't like anyone,not even themselves.We all know of the assistance ,or lack of by these people. I don't know if you visited the war memorials scattered all over Europe.I visited the huge grave site in Italy near Monti Casino. Sobering my friend.A lot of our kids there.Of course now ,they are almost forgotten,except by the lord that is. The USA is not perfect,all have the freedom here to beef about it.Many ,under the guise of the first amendment,can express themselves any way they want to, often in in outrageous ways. We can disagree,non violently,its our right.Where else can you do this.Try this in that other world.Saddam,and others would not agree with us.Yet ,he gets a trail,instead of havening his head cut off. The TV,I had, in a first rate hotel ,featured only one English program.CNN,and Algezari.The rest reminded of the waste land at home on TV.. RAI,was interesting to watch,but they talk to fast. What a treat that was.Altho news papers provided news.Like the NFL scores. I have children,I have Grandchildren also.They seem as numerous as the leaves on a tree.I love them,as I love all small innocent people.I do get cynical of the future.Each generation does.And in my life time each generation gets in some conflict.The young are the ones who pay the price. Taking this America for granted is dangerous.Don't delude yourself that all will be the same 10,20,30,40,50,60,yrs from now.I have gone through those numbers.There is always change.Hopefully for the better,but you have to be diligent to keep it.You have to be prideful in your country,and if you must,defend it like many,many,have,often with their lives. "Duty,Honor,Country",is not some meaningless slogan.Many have structured their lives on these words.Thank You John for your thoughts.If I don't get the chance, "MERRY CHRISTMAS" CIAO! VIN

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I think this incident was completely avoidable and maybe the Air Marshal should have been trained a little bit better in human psychology.First of all, noone who is serious about blowing up an airliner (or anything) would announce his intensions running across the plane and screaming of having a bomb, unless he is indeed unstable and off the meds.Secondly, reports indicate that he had an argument with his wife on the plane and when he ran across the plane he was followed by his wife who had screamed that he was mentally-ill and off his meds.Thirdly, with all the airport security it would have been almost impossible to bring an explosive device on board. Granted, this plane came from South America, so airport security might be on another level.It was just a crazy guy making some really bad decisions, which ultimately cost his life. I actually had to shake my head when they ultimately blew up the bag of the deceased on the tarmac. That was a tad over the edge, don't you think?Cheers.

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And my contention is thatFirst of all, ANYONE who is serious about blowing up an airliner (or anything) and announces his intentions running across the plane and screaming of having a bomb, is indeed UNSTABLE and who cares if they are on meds or not.You said:"I think this incident was completely avoidable and maybe the Air Marshal should have been trained a little bit better in human psychology."And I am satisfied he was trained properly to stop his target from advancing his stated crime.You said:"I actually had to shake my head when they ultimately blew up the bag of the deceased on the tarmac. That was a tad over the edge, don't you think?"NO, it is proper procedure to detonate an unknown device. Would you rather have seen a Bomb Tech blown up and killed as he opened it up? You can shake your head all you want. In this case, it was the right thing to do.There are many instances in the past where a hijacker, YES, declares they have a bomb. They are all NUTCASES, and mentally deficient, IMHO, and I guess this TERRORIST should have stopped. He was ok enough to state he had a bomb.That Agent performed his duty that my tax dollars paid for him to do. he protected lives in this case, apparently hit his intended target and nothing or no one else, and the only one dead was the ALLEGED CRIMINAL who broke the law.I have heard enough on this to state it was a Justified action in my opinion.

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That's the way life goes. You flirt with death, death flirts with you!JimCYWG

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FLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.AS LONG AS We are changing headlines shall we cut to the chase? I am alive and he is dead. We are both said to be bipolar so what is the real difference?ONe lettter in the alphabet. S WHEN I DECIDE whether to be afraid, I lookk at my dog AND i settle the issue.

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Yes, a lot of the negativity about the US boils down to envy and misreporting things (which itself boils down to 90% envy and 10% language barriers).Here the shooting was reported as if the air marshalls who acted were coldblooded murderers gunning down a mentally unstable man who joked about having a bomb with no provocation at all.That's indeed the story as some ultra-left people in the US have (I've been told) reported it, leaving it likely that the paper who printed it here just used unreliable US sources for their data either because they're biassed (highly likely given the way our press leans) or because they're gullible (also likely, they WANT to believe the US is evil).90% of people here use such reports as their sole means of information, and thus get the entirely wrong impression about what's going on in your country.Repeat such a thing a dozen, a hundred times, and you have a population truely indoctrinated to the idea that the US are a bloodthirsty society where the Government randomly shoots people for no other reason than that they're either opposed to them or are not bringing in enough money, a Govenrment that does the same with other countries as well, attacked Afghanistan and Iraq without provocation for purely economic gains.

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Oh Dear.... Vin, please don't resort to writing very long rebuttels without properly understanding the meaning behind one's words. I only said "SNAFU" as a way of describing how bad this situation is with regards to air safety and national security, NOT to question in anyway the actions of the air marshalls with this man. And I for one see nothing wrong with what the air marshalls did to this man, with regards to the threats that the man made according to what all of the news sources are saying. So, chill out, dude!!!! :-waveCheers,

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What I CHOOSE to do when making it easier to follow my own posts is my choice.If I want to change the subject line, I can do as I please.Don't agree with it, oh well. :-) :-)IMHO, this is one more criminal I don't have to worry about blowing something up.*****************You said:>>AS LONG AS We are changing headlines shall we cut to the>chase?

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