• I voted, but I also SHAME Microsoft. Their controller. Their software, and they cant be bothered to support their own hardware.
• -Stampee

you cant expect them to support old old stuff.

40 minutes ago, wim123 said:

you cant expect them to support old old stuff.

Because it is currently catch22.

1. No game bothers supporting FFB properly because there are only a limited number of FFB sticks on the market.  The FFB in game support that does exist is gimmicky stuff they can program quickly like wheel shimmy rather than true FFB support and MSFS has no inbuilt support at all you need to buy XPForce.

2. However the reason there are not many FFB sticks/yokes around is a combination of expensive haptic licencing and the fact that no games support it other than as a gimmick.

If MSFS supported it well people would start making devices again.

This is compounded by a rather stupid idea floating around amongst people that have never used FFB that it is just  a gimmick and totally pointless unless precisely adjusted to the actual exact forces of every aircraft (a bit like saying study level aircraft are pointless unless everything down to the tire pressures is modelled precisely for every aircraft. You do not need the forces to be exact for an FFB stick to be vastly closer to reality)  These people are just misinformed and plain wrong,  good FFB support is not just a gimmick or about immersion, it allows correct stick and rudder control and among other things avoids people learning really bad real world habits like flying untrimmed or worse flying with the trim button for fine adjustments that will mess them up if they ever do real world training

 

 

Edited November 26, 20205 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

13 minutes ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

Because it is currently catch22.

1. No game bothers supporting FFB properly because there are only a limited number of FFB sticks on the market.  The FFB in game support that does exist is gimmicky stuff they can program quickly like wheel shimmy rather than true FFB support and MSFS has no inbuilt support at all you need to buy XPForce.

2. However the reason there are not many FFB sticks/yokes around is a combination of expensive haptic licencing and the fact that no games support it other than as a gimmick.

If MSFS supported it well people would start making devices again.

This is compounded by a rather stupid idea floating around amongst people that have never used FFB that it is just  a gimmick and totally pointless unless precisely adjusted to the actual exact forces of every aircraft (a bit like saying study level aircraft are pointless unless everything down to the tire pressures is modelled precisely for every aircraft. You do not need the forces to be exact for an FFB stick to be vastly closer to reality)  These people are just misinformed and plain wrong,  good FFB support is not just a gimmick or about immersion, it allows correct stick and rudder control and among other things avoids people learning really bad real world habits like flying untrimmed or worse flying with the trim button for fine adjustments that will mess them up if they ever do real world training

 

 

I really support this thread by Glenn.  He makes perfect sense.  If you've never tried FF with our sims, you don't know what you're missing.  It is so much more immersive than you could possibly think.  It is not a gimmick.  I would never fly without it.  I've tried, but it is without feeling.  I currently have 5 Microsoft FF2 joysticks.  I started buying them on Ebay.  I never want to be without one.

Stan

 

 

 

48 minutes ago, spilok said:

I really support this thread by Glenn.  He makes perfect sense.  If you've never tried FF with our sims, you don't know what you're missing.  It is so much more immersive than you could possibly think.  It is not a gimmick.  I would never fly without it.  I've tried, but it is without feeling.  I currently have 5 Microsoft FF2 joysticks.  I started buying them on Ebay.  I never want to be without one.

Stan

 

 

 

I originally got my FFB2 for IL2 as in WWII combat sims FFB makes it so much easier to fly on the edge of the envelope, you knew exactly how far you could push it before stall for example. FFB plus trackir gave you a substantially competitive edge.   However I soon found it invaluable in civilian sims as well. Unfortunately in MSFS you need to buy addon software like XPForce to get force feedback at all and even then the messed up way that MSFS deals with trim makes some aspects of FFB tricky compared to P3D/Xplane.

In the last talk they even said something along the lines of "doing trim correctly is hard without force feedback" ... well just support force feedback natively .

Edited November 26, 20205 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

My personal answers to question:

- Why I need FFB ?     Because I am a tinker, a maker, a builder and I want make my motion simulator by my self, I am not rich enough to buy "haptics", prefer to make them.  SHAME TO MS TO LEFT THE COMMUNITY.

- Why MS SWFFB2, this old joystick ?   Because it is very use by the motion simulation community has a base for FFB yoke and pedals (Google it!).  Also is because is MS and should natively supported in FS2020, like it is ON ANY OTHER flight simulator, SHAME TO MS !