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Bruce Nicholson KMFR

whats going on with this comunity

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HiI have just read an editorial at another website.It seems there are a lot of critics of avsim in the major fsim websites,why is this? Surely it cannot all amount to jealousyI have come across ######y comments over the past few years but it does seem that this petty childish playground behaviour exists across the board, I remember avsim not allowing anyone to mention another fsim.com* website as it used to get edited as profanity.The fsplanet situation i know and accept but I really dont understand the background to all this as i have never taken an interest, but it now bugs me as i frequent this site regularly and it is my first point of call for fsim related topicsAnybody care to share the information?If not I guess this post can dissappear!!Keith

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When did avsim not allow mention of flightsim.com? It was (and still is) the other way around.

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What editorial and where? There are many critics of AVSIM, from the very day we opened. There have been conspiracy stories, again from the day we opened. There are those that would like to see us fail in order for them to succeed and make money off this "hobby". There are commercial sites out there that are jealous of our success, and can't stand the idea that we are not a "pay for site" that would allow them to compete on an even footing. And yes, there are some petty egos involved that take every opportunity to show their petty egos. Anyway, point me to the editorial and I will be happy to respond to it. :)

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There was I believe a period when an overzealous forum manager placed the word in the profanity filter ;)Didn't last long...

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It's always been that way, probably always will remain that way.I'm not at liberty to divulge information about the root causes, let's just say there are some very strong (and headstrong) personalities involved who have their differences of opinion which have over time led to more or less open hostility between those people.Fallout of this is that some (many?) people are drawn into factional infighting, having to choose which side to support.Personally I try to stay above that, personally knowing people in more than one camp and trying to stay out of the politics as much as possible.Yes, it's sometimes childish and shortsighted. If everyone were to shake hands and forget past adversaties things might be a lot better overall but I severely doubt that's going to happen seeing how long it's all been going on now and how deeply rooted the differences of opinion and the personal animosities are.

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It's the same everywhere. When I was into racing sims, the main sites subjected to jelous slander and accusations of skulduggery, etc. One such case I recall was "Pieter's Grand Prix 2" site. If you've been around long enough you know to ignore it all. The problem is that some people, due to their recency withing a hobby, don't see this pattern.

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Thanks, I must have not seen that...Too bad avsim is still consider "profane" at other site(s) :-(

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Hi TomThe editors editorial is at simflight , I wouldnt say it is particularly harsh but it does take a swipe at this site .Its a response over this FSX Bs that has gone like widfire over the last few days .I understand the posts/fight against sites that charge people to dl freeware but I cant understand the personal attacks that happen in forums regularly about whose site is bad with no real explanantion as to why. Anyway I was tired when I started this as I have been working all over the holiday and with hindsight wish I hadn't posted as I am now becoming involved in it ,usually I just read the posts !!!Happy new year all and thanks avsim/freeware devs for all the stuff i have dl from your servers over the last few yrsKeith

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I wouldnt say that... that community is still here... always has been. There's just a LOT more people here. I know it's hard to see it... Example... if something major was to happen in my life... I know I could post about it here and I would get more support than I would in real life. Believe me, this is still a great community. Why do you think I check in every day? I love hanging out with the guys I've gotten familiar with over the past few years. I probably don't have 1000 posts here, even in the past near-5 years I've been a member, but I feel proud to be a "veteran" member of such a great place.

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Staffan, good question..I remember the same types of issues in FS98 days and even beyond those days. I used to belong to Prodigy, where a number of us had a forum dedicated to Packard Bell. You should have seen all the arguments and fires that arose in those forums!Almost any forum can have issues, and most have. I've seen people torn to bits at Flightsim.com, here, and just about everywhere in between. A couple of weeks ago I had to go in for a medical procedure, so I tried to educate myself by visiting newsgroups that discussed the procedure. 99 percent of the time the procedure is done with sedation. When someone wrote to voice concern that the insurance company wanted to balk at paying for sedation for his son, he was flamed with "your son is a wimp" comments rather than receiving the support he sought. There's people in every crowd, not just ours.As moderators, we're sometimes torn. I was ill during the FS2006 discussion and still am and tried to cope with it the best I could. but to be honest I missed many posts. I believe Tom and Ken were weren't present as much either due to the holidays. Matt stepped in and helped out. Every site goes through those moments when the resources just aren't enough. Every site has someone (myself included) that sticks his/her foot in their mouth at regular intervals. As a large community, larger than most, the odds are against us in that regard. But they are also for us, in the sense that here is where most often people come seeking answers to all sorts of questions.-John

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Staffan, You have a short memory my friend. I have been "in the community" since November of 1996, and it hasn't changed much. You know that, as you have been around for about the same amount of time. From what I have seen, those that claim the "climate" has changed usually follow that statement by accusing AVSIM of some nefarious attack on their web site, means of making a living, ad naseum. So, my conclusion is that "climate" is a self serving claim that usually is some pretext to attack AVSIM and usually for commercial reasons (read loss of sales, wounded egos, etc. etc.). As for extending that argument to include freeware authors, yes, we have lost some. The truth of the matter is that freeware is alive and well. Despite those that would judge the health of the community by the departure of freeware authors, the truth is that there are many who are stepping up to take the place of those that have departed. My advice to you and others who see the "climate" claims by some site admins, take that with a bit of "salt" and look at the reasons why they might claim that to be so.

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Staffan, we posted over each other. It IS NOT "sad but true". The community is robust, growing and the membership of AVSIM proves that. Things have changed, certainly, but to characterize our community as something less than it was 5 or 7 years ago is not correct. It is much better and getting more so.

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I agree to some extent what you say Tom. And if you have noticed, I am a AVSIM supporter from head to toe. And I very well know what AVSIM stands for. This forum has become some kind of virtual home for me over the years, aswell as to many other "oldies",...if you can call 48 old. :-lolI remember as if it was yesterday, when I, together with Eric, was involved in the first big copyright case, and you stood behind us all the way. I will never forget this. ;-)We can talk much more about this when you come to Stockholm...;-)http://www.scandicair.com/images/sa_banner.gif"Real men fly with round gauges"[/color]

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Staffan, I am coming to Stockholm. I will come to Stockholm when you outlaw aquavit and herring. :-lolSeriously, I was last there about two years ago, but was only there for one night. Next time I will plan to spend the weekend and we can certainly get together, as I have wanted to do for a number of years.

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Yeah, but you see, one leads to the other. Outlaw Aquavit and the herring disappears. Outlaw Aquavit and herring and I won't be challenged to spend a mid-summer's eve looking at beautiful Swedish women. I can simply go to bed!!! At my age, that is always a good idea. :-lolMy cousin Sheri and our friendly stray cat. Taken in Oregon last week, sans computer.... :)

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I think that there are several issues at play here that could make people think that things are "worse" than they used to be. First off I would say that Avsims member base has grown over the past few years and given that the number of "problem" people grows as well. If you only have a membership of say 1000 people and maybe 20 of them like to stir the pot on occasion you would not see as many "problem" posts as you would with a membership of 10,000 and 200 people having their fun. Also the "problem" people tend to feed off of each other on occasion so while the ratio may remain the same, the number of problem posts will actually be higher as they have their fun with each other. The next thing that you might think about is that most people tend to remember the past as the "good times" more so than the bad times. I'll bet that if you could go back and read all of the posts on Avsim from the FS98 days you would see a lot of nastiness that you do not remember right now. Another thing is that since there are more people now maybe it does not feel as much like a family as it once did. I know that there was a time where I felt like I knew almost everyone who posted here, that is not true anymore. I was more of a lurker then but the membership was lower at the time so it felt more like a close family, today it is a very large extended family with the big gain in membership. All in all I think that everything is exactly the same as it was many years ago here, some people are very helpful, some critical, some are flamers, some are lurkers, there are newbies and old timers. The only change is that there are more of each group so the discussions are bigger with more people on each "side" trying to get their opinion heard. Sometimes having more people can make things seem to be "worse" but I think it is better, more ideas, more opinions, more creativity, more FUN! I too have thought that things were better in the old days but the more I thought about it the more I realized that things are really the same as they always have been, just with more people.Take care you all and have a great year! Philip Olsonhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpg

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it gets in the way of the specialty beers ;)

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Baker Bulldogs OSAA schedule?Tom, you certainly do find your way to some of the remote parts of the world.Hope you enjoyed the holidays with your family.Bruce

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