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FlyingsCool

ATC even worse than FS9

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I'm thoroughly enjoying FSX and haven't run FS9 since I installed it. I've got my settings to a good compromise between looks and performance.But the one thing (aside from desert textures) that makes me nuts is the ATC. IFR flight out of NYC to Baltimore. "Contact NY Center on XXX", then 30 seconds later "Contact NY Center on YYY", then 30 seconds after that "Contact NY Center on ZZZ". Then finally you get "Contact Washington Center on XXX", only to get "Contact NY Center on XXX" again a few seconds later. Then you get the "Turn left to XX" and before you can complete the turn you get "Turn right to YY" and 3 seconds later "Please expedite your turn to YY". Then it's "Turn left to XX" again, and a few seconds later, "Turn right to YY" and then "Please expedite your turn to YY". Then the biggest thing that got me tonight. I was plane watching at Miami Intl. I'm using World of AI planes and even with my traffic setting at only 10%, I had tons of planes. There were always 6 or 8 planes lined up for departure. With the airport vehicles scurrying around and traffic on the highway adjacent to the runway, it was a very lively atmosphere.But the thing that killed it, was that while probably 10 planes took off, not one single plane was allowed to land. Every one got "Cleared to land" only to get over the threshold and get the dreaded "Go around" EVERY SINGLE TIME. FSX is an amazing program and has a lot of great new features, but I wish they could have improved the traffic handling a little. It seems to me that it's even worse than it was in FS9.Ok, I'm done ranting now. Carry on!Jim

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Oh, and another thing. When you set up a flight in a helicopter, from a helipad, your only ATC choice is to contact ground, and then your only choice is to taxi to a runway. Why no provision for take-off from a helipad? Or am I missing something?Jim

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but, yes, the ATC as is (was) is a turn off. I usually file en route, close to my destination airport. Guess this aspect is add-on dedicated.

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I don't think it is worse in fsx. I tried quite a few scenarios and didn't the the criss cross vectoring that I used to get in fs9-then tried a few more and did get it. Depends on where you fly and the atc boundries.I think the atc is improved-but only marginally. Have seen some interesting things-like when going from parallel runways being told "cessna 172 on parallel runway taking off-use caution".I don't think they put a lot into atc computer generated improvements-but there are some...http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

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>Have seen>some interesting things-like when going from parallel runways>being told "cessna 172 on parallel runway taking off-use>caution".FS9 did thatMartin

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Yep, same thing happened to me on FS9 quite a bit as well.I'm not sure if anything has actually changed in regards to ATC in FSX, except for maybe the fact that the popup has a history.James

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No you are not missing something. There is NO provision for choppers. YOu have to tell what runway you are going to use and which one to land on. Also, a pet peeve of mine (which neither sim had) is an emergency call where you could report that you had lost an engine etc. and you could get clearance to the nearest runway. I feel that is an absolute necessity.

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Well I've noticed something that I think of as a welcome improvement to ATC. I've have MyTraffic X installed and it installed a number of AF2 files, but not one for the airport that I have been flying out of, KDEN. Regardless of the fact that MyTraffic X did not install an AF2 for KDEN, FSX ATC is using MULTIPLE runways for takeoff and landings resulting in very few go arounds or other traffic congestions that plauged FS9, and also gives an improved feeling of realism over FS9 for me.I sure don't recall FS9 making using of numerous runways, unless a custom AF2 file was made to implement the use of multiple runways. Again, MyTraffic X doesn't appear to have installed one for KDEN in FSX, but perhaps there is something else I have missed going on here with the installation of MyTraffic X, although I doubt it.Can anyone else confirm that default FSX ATC uses multiple runways at large airports? This would be different than default ATC in FS9, correct?Jim

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I used to get planes taking off and landing on multiple runways in FS9, and the ATC commands to be cautious of the aircraft taking off/landing on parallel runways.That said, I am dissapointed they didn't add much to the FSX ATC, I had really hoped for speed instructions, like "descend to flight level xxx, slow to xxx", and for improvements in the AI traffic management, and procedures for emergency landings (if I need to do that I just file a new flight plan once I decide on my destination).I do seem to get more go-arounds in FSX, but I think that's due to increased levels of AI planes, it sure is busy - adds a lot to the simulation for me.And I wish you could turn off the ATC history! I don't have such a short memory I can't remember a heading and an altitude, it just takes up space, and while I shrink the ATC window down to make it smaller, it is too annoying to have the ATC overlaying my panel like in FS9, so I stick it in the top right corner, and tend to close the window when I'm not using it (since it pops right back once ATC needs to chat!).But I do think FSX is one heck of a program, I really love it and have got it performing great and looking great now, without using texture reduction tweaks (which I did do on my original install) - just a few config things, and all is well.

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It's important to remember though that if Aces had spent too much time improving ATC they would've spent less time on more important things, such as better airmass/flight modelling and a more "real" world.On balance I'm glad they've forgone ATC to focus on the other improvements.James

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You make a good point, I must admit, I am so glad for the improvements to the flight modelling, MSFS has needed that for so long. I find flying in FSX to be a much better experience than in FS9, the whole thing does seem more real, and the flight dynamics are definately way improved.Sure, ATC upgrades would have been nice, but without them, I'm still loving FSX, and my hat is off to Aces for all of the improvements they have made in this version.

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>And I wish you could turn off the ATC history! Go to "Settings". Look at the upper right for "Other Settings" Click on "general" and uncheck "Auto open ATC window" on the top right under "Air Traffic Control".It won't turn off the history but the ATC window won't open any more when they address you. You'll have to listen for your own call sign like in real life. At least you won't have the ATC window cluttering up your veiw.

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First of all I don't own FSX right now, but playing around with the demo, I heard something that got me excited about ATC. But now I am not sure. I was doing a mission, landing with the CRJ, and after I touched down, the tower instructed the 747 to position and hold, and then when I was clear, they cleared them for takeoff. I was going to ask this question but thought I would but it in this thread. Does the normal ATC do this, or is it just during the missions? I was hoping that they added this, but from reading your responses it sounds like that ATC acts the same as FS9. I have always been frustrated that you have to wait until they are clear of the runway before you get cleared for takeoff. It would speed up traffic if they would do this. ThanksGlenn

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FS9 and FSX both have had "Line up and wait" - or - "Position and Hold." It really depends on the airport... ;)

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If you uncheck show atc you will still have the atc come up but no history.

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I think Glenn means the possibility to be cleared for lineup after a LANDING aircraft...but unfortunately thats only in the missions.So, you only get this instruction after a taking-off aircraft like it was in FS9 :-{ .

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yes but only in a pre-programmed mission would ATC allow another aircraft onto the runway while one was landing. flying normally in-game, they ATC would wait til you were totally cleared before telling the other airplane to line up and wait or position and hold (icao or faa terminology, still cant understand why everyone wants to be different)

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Thanks for the reply Benjamin and Alex, that is what I was afraid of after reading this thread. It is to bad because that would have been a really nice feature to add, and it would have moved traffic along alot quicker.Glenn

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after I touched down, the tower instructed the 747 to position and hold, and then when I was clear, they cleared them for takeoff.I think this is a mission behavior. I haven't seen it in regular AI testing.The landing aircraft still has a "lock" on the runway until the trigger event of acknowledging the instruction to contact ground at towered airports - at least as far as I can see.FS - the ATC / flight dynamics interace - really does not appear to be aware of the exact position of aircraft. The AI aircraft, and user aircraft, have a lot of commonality.Basically it appears that when one aircraft is given the runway - a trigger event must occur for another aircraft to be given the runway.The "position and hold" trigger event appears to be the change of the previous aircraft status from "Takeoff1" mode to "Takeoff2" mode.The "cleared for takeoff" trigger event apears to be the acknowledgement of frequency change instructions by the just departed aircraft. Oh, and as far as swapping frequency commands - never fly at 10,000 ft that's almost always a hard boundary - every variation in altitude - even a few feet will trigger a boundary crossing event/ ATC instruction. Also move a half-mile off course if you appear to get stuck on a lateral boundary.Changing ATC is a lot more than adding a few voice commands. Speed controls are something I would love to see - but the entire user and AI flight dynamics interaction with the sim will have to be changed.Maybe in FS12....

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Anyone else notice the transistion page is empty when you want to select the approach (STAR) you want to fly? With blank page you can't select anything and are forced to put up with FSX dumb vectoring, you know, the kind that vectors you into a mountain =

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So has anyone here written to tell_fs@microsoft.com to let them know that you want an upgrade to the ATC in the next patch, and to tell them exactly what behavior that you would like to see added/changed/removed?The more people who write, the more likely it will happen.I'm glad to see that there are still lots of people who would like the ATC functionality to be improved. Please let ACES know about what you want.Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180

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