December 24, 20205 yr I used to sim with fs9, FSX and P3Dv4 and now started again with XP11 even it was installed long time ago but not flying often. I flew today with the 777 Worldliner Pro with a flight plan EGBB-EGLC and the plane didn't end the flight as expected. From the video posted here I hope somebody could comment and a guidance as a help. The question is why the plane didn't descend on time? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dNM2vQfdI1TJpSpWTN4cLCwgzUT61IuT/view?usp=sharing Patricio Patricio Valdes
December 24, 20205 yr Most probably a BUG in their FMS implementation... There were so so many in that add-on that I stopped using it long ago, still in times of XP10 when I bought it... Anyway, apart from not trying to land a 777 at EGLC :-) you shouldn't set your final altitude to 00000 but rather to the MA alt. ( 2000' ) after passing the FAF. With it's weird "logic" the FF 777 certainly went wonky and failed miserably to step down in VNAV... Flying gliders since 1980 Flightsimming since 1992 AMD Ryzen 5600x, 32GB RAM, GPU Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti 8 GB, 1 TB and 500 GB nvme2 SSD drives, HP 27" 60Hz LED monitor @ 1920x1080, T16000, Hotas from old X52 Pro, Saitek Combat Rudder Pro (2010 model)
December 24, 20205 yr Author 6 hours ago, jcomm said: Most probably a BUG in their FMS implementation... There were so so many in that add-on that I stopped using it long ago, still in times of XP10 when I bought it... Anyway, apart from not trying to land a 777 at EGLC :-) you shouldn't set your final altitude to 00000 but rather to the MA alt. ( 2000' ) after passing the FAF. With it's weird "logic" the FF 777 certainly went wonky and failed miserably to step down in VNAV... I did exactly same procedures with PMDG 777 in FSX and P3Dv4.5 and all went just fine, no issues. I thought the same procedures should be with XP11. Why altitude 2000? Patricio Patricio Valdes
December 24, 20205 yr 2 hours ago, trisho0 said: Why altitude 2000? Missed approach procedure, rw 09 Climb straight ahead to 2000. At I-LST DME 5 turn left to return to NDB(L) LCY at 2000 or as directed. Flying gliders since 1980 Flightsimming since 1992 AMD Ryzen 5600x, 32GB RAM, GPU Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti 8 GB, 1 TB and 500 GB nvme2 SSD drives, HP 27" 60Hz LED monitor @ 1920x1080, T16000, Hotas from old X52 Pro, Saitek Combat Rudder Pro (2010 model)
December 24, 20205 yr Author 3 hours ago, jcomm said: Missed approach procedure, rw 09 Climb straight ahead to 2000. At I-LST DME 5 turn left to return to NDB(L) LCY at 2000 or as directed. Oops! I know what you meant. I am not asking for GOA. I am asking why the plane didn't descend on time. Patricio Valdes
December 24, 20205 yr That's surely because of one of the many bugs / inaccuracies / lack of details of the FF 777... Flying gliders since 1980 Flightsimming since 1992 AMD Ryzen 5600x, 32GB RAM, GPU Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti 8 GB, 1 TB and 500 GB nvme2 SSD drives, HP 27" 60Hz LED monitor @ 1920x1080, T16000, Hotas from old X52 Pro, Saitek Combat Rudder Pro (2010 model)
December 25, 20205 yr actually, i'm not sure it is a bug. you hit vnav alt from the mcp at 8000 feet, in the 744 at least you need to depress the alt knob to escape from a vnav alt rather than pth AutoATC Developer
December 25, 20205 yr 5 hours ago, mSparks said: actually, i'm not sure it is a bug. you hit vnav alt from the mcp at 8000 feet, in the 744 at least you need to depress the alt knob to escape from a vnav alt rather than pth Well spotted Sparks - I thought I had seen him ALT INTerventing ... but he actually didn't ! Anyway... 00000 should never have been selected on the ALT window ... Edited December 25, 20205 yr by jcomm Flying gliders since 1980 Flightsimming since 1992 AMD Ryzen 5600x, 32GB RAM, GPU Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti 8 GB, 1 TB and 500 GB nvme2 SSD drives, HP 27" 60Hz LED monitor @ 1920x1080, T16000, Hotas from old X52 Pro, Saitek Combat Rudder Pro (2010 model)
December 31, 20205 yr Author On 12/24/2020 at 11:21 PM, mSparks said: actually, i'm not sure it is a bug. you hit vnav alt from the mcp at 8000 feet, in the 744 at least you need to depress the alt knob to escape from a vnav alt rather than pth I did hit VNAV before take-off Edited December 31, 20205 yr by trisho0 n/a Patricio Valdes
December 31, 20205 yr Author On 12/25/2020 at 4:58 AM, jcomm said: Well spotted Sparks - I thought I had seen him ALT INTerventing ... but he actually didn't ! Anyway... 00000 should never have been selected on the ALT window ... On this flight what Altitude would you set, 2000 ft? I flew many times doing such Altitude setting accordingly. Example, if Arrival ground altitude is 2530 ft then I set ALT at 2500. If other Arrival show me from FMC like 55 ft then I set ALT at 00000. If Arrival means 3560 ft altitude then I set ALT in the plane at 3500. Video here shows the procedures I was doing for years ..... https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NraLqiPmYs65iI_KW9AY4EVQUMvNnv11/view?usp=sharing This altitude settings I had been doing for a couple of years if no more. I learned this from PMDG 747-400X I could be wrong? I think I need help about Altitude settings. Patricio Edited December 31, 20205 yr by trisho0 n/a Patricio Valdes
December 31, 20205 yr 16 minutes ago, trisho0 said: I did hit VNAV in trying to see what happens because the 8000 ft stayed firm with no descent at all. I will give another try .... The FMA - flight mode annunciation - changed to VNAV ALT when you changed the dial. meaning might vary (even between boeing 7s from a discussion the other day) VNAV ALT on the 744 basically means it locked to the MCP altitude (8000 feet at the time) and you will have to tell it when you want it to begin ascending/descending, for the 744 you would do this by depressing the altitude knob in. I'm not sure of the exact procedure in the 777, but I would expect it to be similar - you'll have to check the fcom and/or training docs for what should happen. Edited December 31, 20205 yr by mSparks AutoATC Developer
December 31, 20205 yr First, I decided to query at the Aerowinx PSX forum, to get answers from the "pros" :-), and at least "localizer" has already answered. Just as I thought setting your altitude as you did in both videos to the rounded threshold + 50 ft alt is not the way it is done in RL ops... I had mentioned MDA(H), while loc adds in his post that it should be rounded down to the nearest 100s... http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=6225.0 Also mSparks remark above regarding non-automatic transition from VNAV ALT into VNAV PTH isn't 100% right, as commented bellow in two of the videos, one by John other by Britjet, where they mention a circumstance under which the transition actually takes place automatically, but that was not the case in your first video. Now some nice videos, all recorded by a RW 777 captain former 744, using Aerowinx PSX, and a retired BA 744 captain / instructor: ( I really couldn't answer in anyway better than these videos ... ) VNAV Approach Part 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tiw56Lcu-y8 VNAV Approach Part 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZM9x7WPMh4 In the above video, at THIS TIME you also get a description of the only situation under which the transition from VNAV ALT to VNAV PTH can be automatic ( so without intervening ). Speed Protection on VNAV Approacheshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewJklYJujeg Speed Intervention on VNAV Descenthttps://youtu.be/eyJZtmlDh1Y What Speed Will Appear in the Window?https://youtu.be/QmibElrJ8s8 17) VNAV in descent modehttps://youtu.be/rObfeCNBM2c18) VNAV on approachhttps://youtu.be/2w552oQ5-qE The same automatic transition from VNAV ALT to VNAV PTH is mentioned in the above video by Britjet - HERE.19) Non-ILS Database Approaches (NIDAs)https://youtu.be/-fBoLTehrV820) Non-ILS Database App DEMO JFK VOR22Lhttps://youtu.be/kTXpk6rdJGI21) Non-ILS Non Database Approaches ( NINDAs)https://youtu.be/hGoqADOnAD4 There's also a good collection at the link bellow, mostly recorded in PMDG but also the latest in PSX since the author decided to go Aerowinx 🙂 Subsonic Flight Training - YouTube Edited December 31, 20205 yr by jcomm Flying gliders since 1980 Flightsimming since 1992 AMD Ryzen 5600x, 32GB RAM, GPU Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti 8 GB, 1 TB and 500 GB nvme2 SSD drives, HP 27" 60Hz LED monitor @ 1920x1080, T16000, Hotas from old X52 Pro, Saitek Combat Rudder Pro (2010 model)
December 31, 20205 yr Author 9 hours ago, mSparks said: The FMA - flight mode annunciation - changed to VNAV ALT when you changed the dial. meaning might vary (even between boeing 7s from a discussion the other day) VNAV ALT on the 744 basically means it locked to the MCP altitude (8000 feet at the time) and you will have to tell it when you want it to begin ascending/descending, for the 744 you would do this by depressing the altitude knob in. I'm not sure of the exact procedure in the 777, but I would expect it to be similar - you'll have to check the fcom and/or training docs for what should happen. Many thanks for your help. I do the same procedures as per https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NraLqiPmYs65iI_KW9AY4EVQUMvNnv11/view?usp=sharing The plane ascends/descends following FMC legs pages. Patricio Patricio Valdes
December 31, 20205 yr Author 4 hours ago, jcomm said: First, I decided to query at the Aerowinx PSX forum, to get answers from the "pros" :-), and at least "localizer" has already answered. Just as I thought setting your altitude as you did in both videos to the rounded threshold + 50 ft alt is not the way it is done in RL ops... I had mentioned MDA(H), while loc adds in his post that it should be rounded down to the nearest 100s... http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=6225.0 Also mSparks remark above regarding non-automatic transition from VNAV ALT into VNAV PTH isn't 100% right, as commented bellow in two of the videos, one by John other by Britjet, where they mention a circumstance under which the transition actually takes place automatically, but that was not the case in your first video. Now some nice videos, all recorded by a RW 777 captain former 744, using Aerowinx PSX, and a retired BA 744 captain / instructor: ( I really couldn't answer in anyway better than these videos ... ) VNAV Approach Part 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tiw56Lcu-y8 VNAV Approach Part 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZM9x7WPMh4 In the above video, at THIS TIME you also get a description of the only situation under which the transition from VNAV ALT to VNAV PTH can be automatic ( so without intervening ). Speed Protection on VNAV Approacheshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewJklYJujeg Speed Intervention on VNAV Descenthttps://youtu.be/eyJZtmlDh1Y What Speed Will Appear in the Window?https://youtu.be/QmibElrJ8s8 17) VNAV in descent modehttps://youtu.be/rObfeCNBM2c18) VNAV on approachhttps://youtu.be/2w552oQ5-qE The same automatic transition from VNAV ALT to VNAV PTH is mentioned in the above video by Britjet - HERE.19) Non-ILS Database Approaches (NIDAs)https://youtu.be/-fBoLTehrV820) Non-ILS Database App DEMO JFK VOR22Lhttps://youtu.be/kTXpk6rdJGI21) Non-ILS Non Database Approaches ( NINDAs)https://youtu.be/hGoqADOnAD4 There's also a good collection at the link bellow, mostly recorded in PMDG but also the latest in PSX since the author decided to go Aerowinx 🙂 Subsonic Flight Training - YouTube Great Help! I will watch and learn more from those video links. I appreciate that. How can you figure then my flights were success in fs9, FSX and P3Dv4.5 with all my PMDG Collection (737, 747 and 777)? None of those PMDG planes failed from my the ALT settings. As I said earlier I learned about from file://E:\smithplanet\fs2004\pmdg\index.htm page 27 At about 10 miles from the VCV VOR, set MCP ALT to 0. I learned also the ALT setting I do is as I explained earlier too. Patricio Patricio Valdes
December 31, 20205 yr Patricio, look at the last post at the Aerowinx thread I started early today to ask about the altitude set for the last segment before FAF ... It can be airline specific and you can read there: "However, I believe this is something which is airline-specific. I'm familiar with setting MDA (rounded down) in this circumstance, but recently I was chatting with a friend who flies for a major US airline and it turns out their procedure for a VNAV approach is to set threshold elevation. So horses for courses, as they say..." So, you were actually not wrong in doing as you did 🙂 and I am always learning... Edited December 31, 20205 yr by jcomm Flying gliders since 1980 Flightsimming since 1992 AMD Ryzen 5600x, 32GB RAM, GPU Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti 8 GB, 1 TB and 500 GB nvme2 SSD drives, HP 27" 60Hz LED monitor @ 1920x1080, T16000, Hotas from old X52 Pro, Saitek Combat Rudder Pro (2010 model)
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