Axis and Ohs Support Sub Forum

[turbomax 3,285]

7 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

The default events work (although they are still listed in the SDK documentation

??? they work although they are listed?

I don't understand that.

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

5 minutes ago, turbomax said:

??? they work although they are listed?

I don't understand that.

Full sentence please:

"You have no guarantee...that the default events work, although listed in the SDK doc"

They might be there, but they just don't do anything. Asobo lists them as "legacy" btw.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Lorby_SI

[turbomax 3,285]

25 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

The default G1000 (K:) events, that were carried over from FSX, are still in the SDK, but they don't do anything.

Hello Master Lorby

I misread your message, thanks very much for your clarification!

but why include them then as selectable in your program at all? and why no mention in the manual that they don't work at all?  this is very confusing and misleading for the non-programmer user, who only wants to add some control inputs but not study SDK documents. I think you would save yourself some valuable time if you made that clear in your manual as the whole subject is already complicated enough.

thanks again for your assistance, much appreciated.

Edited September 20, 2021 by turbomax

[turbomax 3,285]

6 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

"You have no guarantee...that the default events work, although listed in the SDK doc"

ok, in other words: they may NOT work, although they are listed.

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

5 minutes ago, turbomax said:

but why include them then as selectable in your program at all?

Because they are part of the official SDK documentation. At the beginning it was not clear that these events will in fact never work. Everybody thought that it was just an omission, because why include them in the spec in the first place - and at the same time leave out others, that do actually work but that nobody knows about because they aren't documented at all?

You never know if a maker of airplanes and gauges decides to use them anyway. For example I did, with the PFD/MDF desktop FIPs.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Lorby_SI

[turbomax 3,285]

thanks.

I understand, I still think it would be most helpful if you explained this in your manual. users are not SDK programmers, nor should they have to become one. instead they try the G1000 variables (instead of the HTML AS_1000 ) and are completely lost when it doesn't work as expected. instead of flying, it took me most of my weekend and many threads and youtubes to get a single button to work 😀

Edited September 20, 2021 by turbomax

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

1 hour ago, turbomax said:

it would be most helpful if you explained this in your manual.

These events are listed in the SDK documentation, so they exist and are valid. If aircraft developers actually use them or not is entirely their choice. In this case, Asobo themselves decided not to use them in their G1000. But it is entirely possible that another aircraft developer decides to implement them, and then stating that they simply "don't work" would be wrong.

The most important lesson to learn here is, that now with MSFS every aircraft and gauge developer simply does whatever they want. They invent their own HVars and LVars, which you have then to figure out somehow (painfully) by yourself and wrap them into RPN scripts. If you are lucky, the aircraft developer publishes the variable names online. If not - some people had some luck using the developer mode in MSFS and tracking the logic in the behaviour debugger, others try to figure out the code of the animation definition files.

We don't have the luxury that we can just say "you take this event and it does that". Times have changed, and there is no telling in MSFS if any event does what the spec says. As I said, external controllers are very low on the priority list of the platform provider. Otherwise they wouldn't just cut us off at the knees with their new BVars.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Lorby_SI

[turbomax 3,285]

1 minute ago, Lorby_SI said:

Explain what exactly?

exactly what you have told me here today. Even if things don't work as expected by a standard user and to which he feels entitled to, it would save everybody incl. yourself lots of time and confusion. how about including a link in your manual with updates as the SDK gets updated, not the SDK and "$§%#?! but in enduser language with separate chapters for the programmers among pilots.

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

18 minutes ago, turbomax said:

exactly what you have told me here today. Even if things don't work as expected by a standard user and to which he feels entitled to, it would save everybody incl. yourself lots of time and confusion. how about including a link in your manual with updates as the SDK gets updated, not the SDK and "$§%#?! but in enduser language with separate chapters for the programmers among pilots.

Sorry, but I cannot know what events and variables will work or not work for all instruments or aircraft out there. That is simply impossible. The vast majority of controller assets (LVars, HVars, BVars) are unknown anyway. They are not documented anywhere, and can only be added to AAO as RPN scripts. All this will only work though a community effort, where all simmers work together to figure out variable names and scripting code to take control (if at all possible - BVars prevent that these days). 

The SDK events are the smallest common denominator. They are in AAO, because the platform provider has published them as valid. 

Quote

it would save everybody incl. yourself lots of time and confusion

Can't say that it is "lots", questions about this are very rare. I usually get asked more about the camera controls, where the legacy events also don't work.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Lorby_SI

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

Just a suggestion - especially where MSFS is concerned, it may be a good idea to head over to the AAO thread in the official MSFS forum (sub section Third Party Addon Discussions -> Tools&Utilities). There is a lot of good information in that thread.

Furthermore, helpful fellow simmers are posting AAO templates and profiles on other websites for everyone to download.

[turbomax 3,285]

1 hour ago, Lorby_SI said:

I cannot know what events and variables will work or not work for all instruments or aircraft out there. That is simply impossible.

that's fine and I understand that and it can not be expected from you. But exactly this should be explained in the manual, so users understand the issue instead of searching for bugs, installation errors, missing drivers etc. when there are none. users need to know about the current limitations and what exactly those are.

might want to include a link in your manual to a section on your website with relevant updates concerning AAO once Asobo release those and links to that AAO section on forums.flightsimulator.com. currently we have to run all over the internet to collect bits and pieces, including some mis-information in the mix. just a thought to make life easier, for you as well.

Edited September 20, 2021 by turbomax

[turbomax 3,285]

5 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

head over to the AAO thread in the official MSFS forum

thanks, wilco.

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

20 minutes ago, turbomax said:

include a link in your manual to a section on your website with relevant updates concerning AAO once Asobo release those. currently we have to run all over the internet to collect bits and pieces, including some mis-information in the mix. just a thought to make life easier, for you as well.

Again: this is not about Asobo or the SDK. Just forget about that. I only mentioned the SDK documentation, to explain that certain events are listed in AAO because the platform provider has published them as valid in that documentation. That does not mean that you have to read it or anything. Just that whatever you see in AAO exists by definition. That does not imply that it does anything at all times, that is just not how this works. If an event works or not is not determined by the SDK. It is determined by the code that the aircraft developer writes.

With every new MSFS aircraft, gauge or aircraft system, you will be starting from scratch and will jump through the same hoops. Unless the developer publishes it, you simply don't know what is required to operate the knobs and switches of his creation. You cannot rely on the SDK documentation or common sense. The developer can use legacy events, but he doesn't have to. He can just as well invent some LVars and HVars instead (which is what most of them do, including Asobo).

20 minutes ago, turbomax said:

currently we have to run all over the internet to collect bits and pieces, including some mis-information in the mix.

Yes, and it will remain that way. There is no way that a person or group could cut through this. The only solution would be standardization (which is actually the role of the SDK), so every developer would adhere to the same principles, use the same events and not just do whatever they want.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Lorby_SI

[turbomax 3,285]

2 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

Just that whatever you see in AAO exists by definition.

but does not necessarily work as expected by a beginner, that's the whole point. if events in the GPS section don't work, then I suggest make a note in the manual, thats all.

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

16 minutes ago, turbomax said:

but does not necessarily work as expected by a beginner, that's the whole point. if events in the GPS section don't work, then I suggest make a note in the manual, thats all.

They don't work with the default G1000. But they might work for a modded one, and some of them definitely work for my PFD and MFD gauges (because I made it so). 

So what is there to tell? "Dear user, don't rely on the legacy events, as they might not work"? I know this is hard to accept for new users. But there is also the big red sign in the AAO product description of the shop saying "try the demo before buying the product".  

Look, I'm sorry that you wasted so much time. I think that you should have asked for help a lot sooner. But I don't see how that could be avoided for other people. Most support requests that I have to deal with don't seem to bother with things like manuals anyway.

And I just don't have the information that you want me to add to the manual. I accidentally know about the G1000 events and the default instrument, because I had to deal with that a year ago (and there is actually a lot of info about this particular issue on the net). And I know about the camera controls, because I also have a Camera addon that I would have loved to get ready for MSFS. I have zero information about the 990 other legacy event IDs, if they work in certain aircraft or not.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Lorby_SI