FBW - flypad and ground services

[Mike S KPDX 597]

Hi, I know that that the flypad  ground services screen is inactive, however I do not get baggage or some of the other ground services when requested via the MSFS ATC dialog box.  I receive a message stating something like 'baggage can not be found'.  I find this odd as the A320 aircraft model is a default model.  Is anyone else unable to use the ground services? (only fuel truck will show but not connect).

[Chock 17,769]

I think it depends on a few factors. First up you probably need a flight plan, then you probably need to be at a suitable stand for the airliner, and last but not least you may need to be clear of parked vehicles and other ramp clutter to ensure the baggage trailer can get to the forward hold. A lot of the stands at airports load your airliner into the sim with it far too close to the head of the stand, and this can prevent the baggage truck from getting in to position on an Airbus and might even cause the sim to not even try, hence the 'we cannot locate your bags' message.

If you are using a payware airport, you might see the correct markings on the centerline of the stand which indicate the place where the nosewheel of your airliner should actually be, with the aircraft types painted on the ground alongside their respective stopping points. You can see that on this video review of the 737 I did (at the 4 minute mark or on the preview pic in fact), where the nose of the aeroplane is quite clearly nowhere near the actual 737 position marker, which in reality of one of those right back adjacent to where the engine is. Because of this, what I often do, is shunt the aeroplane back a bit right when it loads the flight up (with left shift+P). It is one of the reasons why I didn't load the bags on that video review in fact.

I can tell you from real life experience that getting the belt loader or high loader up to the front cargo hold of one of the smaller Airbuses such as the A320 or A319, does not leave a lot of room for avoiding the engine, and doing it on an A320 with a high loader is a bit nerve wracking to say the least the first few times you have a go at it, because the left side of the vehicle ends up only about four inches away from the engine nacelle, with you up on a high platform, stood up driving the loader from the opposite side to where the engine is, meaning you have to try to get the loading platform lined up slightly to the right and come in on a bit of a curve to end up in the right place. So it's quite realistic that if your simulated A320 is not in the right spot on the stand and there are vehicles in the way, the sim might say we can't get the bags to you, because in real life if there is a vehicle such as an ambilift or GPU there, you genuinely can't get the loader up to the aeroplane, and you often have to load the forward hold first to avoid a tail tipping risk, so it's not like you can think 'screw it, we'll do the back hold whilst that vehicle is there'!

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Chock

[RaptyrOne 1,412]

The baggage does get lost and this is normal. As in real life, ground handling inefficiency is simulated. I think it is funny, although when American Airlines lost / stole 3 of my checked in bags on a flight from Washington to Las Vegas a few years back, was not funny at all! Keep asking for your baggage, one day they might actually find it.😉

[Chock 17,769]

Contrary to popular belief and the staple of unoriginal observational comedy stand up routines, it's not at all normal for the location of baggage to be unknown, since this would be a serious security issue. It's especially true for something such as an A320, 737 or similar; normally they are brought to the stand on the carts well before the aeroplane has even landed, let alone taxied onto the stand. This is because there isn't the time available to be looking for them on spins, where the turnaround time can be as little as 25 minutes, so when you set up the stand, you get all the stuff ready beforehand, including the bags. You will see this if you look to the right as you taxi onto the stand in an airliner; the baggage trailers will be there in the inter-stand clearway, usually in two groups, one for the front and one for the rear, along with one or two belt loaders and a couple of EBTs.

Where bags are sometimes late in getting to stands, is when they are for the most part in cans for large long-haul airliners with longer turnarounds. The last of them - usually late check in gate bags - are loose and so these are put into the bulk hold at the rear in the last ten minutes or so, or when prams come down the chutes, since these are very often the last things to arrive, for obvious reasons. This can be a bit of a rush sometimes, but the location of the bags is never unknown in the sense that literally nobody has a clue where they are; they're either in the bag hall still waiting to come off the carousel onto a trailer, or on that trailer waiting for someone to collect it, or they're at the gate waiting to either be dropped down the chute or carried down the steps or elevator next to the jet bridge.

The one time I 'lost' a bag as a passenger, was when some twonk at Tampere in Finland took my bag off the carousel and buggered off with it, so its disappearance was nothing to do with the airlines at all, it was down to some stupid passenger. That pillock didn't bother returning it to the airport until I had flown back home either!

Consequently I had to spend an entire long weekend in Finland, washing the clothes I had travelled in, in the lake next to the cabin I had rented (fortunately it was warm and in the middle of nowhere, so I could enjoy swimming in the lake whist my clothes dried whilst hung up on the trees, or having a nice sauna which the cabin had). Eventually the nobhead who took my bag, brought it back to Tampere and the airline flew it back to Stansted and then up to Manchester, so I only had to go to there to collect it. Ever since then I've always travelled with some essentials in my coat pockets, such as a toothbrush etc, just in case that ever occurs again, because it's not easy to find a shop in the @rse end of nowhere in Finland where you can buy a toothbrush.

In actual fact, although in the sim you can control this stuff a bit, most of this stuff is of no concern whatsoever for the flight deck crew in real life, who don't usually get involved in the loading process at all other than to sign the load sheet and note the weight and distribution for the flight calculations. So it would actually be more realistic if all that stuff happened automatically without you having to do anything, other than to 'sign off' a load plan, although admittedly it can be fun to play around with that stuff in the sim.

The ground crews know what's going on, and coming off the aeroplane, and they do all that without any consultation with the flight deck crew whatsoever, other than the TCO signing the load sheet off with the flight deck crew to confirm the TOW is correct after the ground crew have signed it off, and so they know stuff such as whether or not to turn the heating on in the forward hold if there is a live animal in there.

An exception might possibly be when ammunition and weaponry is being carried on an ERJ-135 or 145, since these only have one hold, so the ammunition may have to be carried in the cockpit so that it isn't with the weapon. Another exception is on smaller airliners such as the Dornier 328 (again with only one hold), where the flight deck crew will often help to load or unload the catering cans because they are bloody heavy to lift in and out of the rear hold and these have to be swapped over for return flights and you can't normally access the rear hold from the cabin when in flight.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Chock

[in2tech 588]

3 hours ago, Mike S KPDX said:

Hi, I know that that the flypad  ground services screen is inactive, however I do not get baggage or some of the other ground services when requested via the MSFS ATC dialog box.  I receive a message stating something like 'baggage can not be found'.  I find this odd as the A320 aircraft model is a default model.  Is anyone else unable to use the ground services? (only fuel truck will show but not connect).

I found that sometimes when I get the "Baggage Can Not Be Found", that sometimes, not always if I close the ATC Window and open it back up, or come back to it later, it MIGHT work. Sometimes it does and others not. Sometimes it all works perfectly, sometimes nothing will work. It also could be me possibly. But I don't think so.  I also don't use it as often as most people do, I don't think?

[garydpoole 183]

4 hours ago, Mike S KPDX said:

Hi, I know that that the flypad  ground services screen is inactive, however I do not get baggage or some of the other ground services when requested via the MSFS ATC dialog box.  I receive a message stating something like 'baggage can not be found'.  I find this odd as the A320 aircraft model is a default model.  Is anyone else unable to use the ground services? (only fuel truck will show but not connect).

If you receive the "baggage cannot be found" message, just ask for it again. On my system, it's always found if you ask twice! 

Regards 

Edited February 24, 2021 by garydpoole

[RaptyrOne 1,412]

6 hours ago, Chock said:

Consequently I had to spend an entire long weekend in Finland, washing the clothes I had travelled in, in the lake next to the cabin I had rented (fortunately it was warm and in the middle of nowhere, so I could enjoy swimming in the lake whist my clothes dried whilst hung up on the trees, or having a nice sauna which the cabin had).

You were lucky! I was on a business conference in Las Vegas, staying at a hotel. My wife had come along for the trip too. Every afternoon when i got back to the hotel and established that our bags were still "missing", we had to go down to a local clothing shop to buy kit for the following day. That went on for a week so we both ended up with new wardrobes and a blown trip budget. I even had to buy new suitcases to lug it all back home! To this day, my "baggage cannot be found". The airline was shameful in the way they handled it too, but I digress...

I think in the sim, it might be as Chock says, that the message is generated on specific conditions such as flight plan, how and where you park etc. however I suspect that it is a much more a random thing that Asobo put in there as a tongue-in-cheek nod to people with experiences like mine. :-)  

[mattn 45]

3 hours ago, garydpoole said:

If you receive the "baggage cannot be found" message, just ask for it again. On my system, it's always found if you ask twice! 

This. If you are using an external view when you ask a 2nd time, you might even see the baggage carts appear out of thin air. Kind of comical actually. 

[Mike S KPDX 597]

Thank you all for your responses, it is very helpful and appreciated.

To Chock;  Thank you for you quite verbose explanation, always good to read.  I noticed you mentioned a 'high' loader, I don't know what that is but I have heard of a K loader, is that the same?  Do you know why it's called a K loader?  Also, I have heard the term 'ramp rash' and how it may be an issue with carbon fiber designs, do you have any thoughts on that?  Thanks again.