I hope this is the right place to post this question. I just updated my GTN750 this morning and I have notice the several airports are missing approaches. The one is use a lot is KABQ which is missing the RNAV approaches for RWY 21 and 26. Ever try a visual approach with fog? At one time, the approaches were there. 

Clarification needed. When you stated that you updated your GTN 750, was that through the usual RXP updates or a custom update done by yourself.

As you know, the stock database is not up to date and that is determined by Garmin. One will also see a difference when using X-Plane 11 and it's avionics with stock data, user custom data upgrades or navigraph subscription.

A quick google of...KABQ which is missing the RNAV approaches for RWY 21 and 26...also points to a few past times of navaid changes on a temp basis.

You may have to determine what has changed wrt the database date and what is valid at this point in time at that actual airport. Not fun when it is an airport that you use on a regular basis. If you can get an idea of what is actually happening at this date as well as what the scenario was at the database date up until now, it will point to what needs to be done short of "getting an expensive one time update from the real world".

On 3/9/2021 at 11:54 AM, Beech 200 said:

The one is use a lot is KABQ which is missing the RNAV approaches for RWY 21 and 26.

I have a newer (2021) database and it only features RNAV 03 and 08, regardless if I choose the Jeppesen WW or Garmin NAmerica database.  Same for my previous (2020) database.

Edited March 13, 20215 yr by Bert Pieke

I only have the 2020 db so I did a quick look while waiting for another job to complete.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KABQ

03/21 and 08/26 are the same runway but only have instrument support in one direction and 12/30 has none. SID/STAR and alternate procedures are downloadable from the link.

Hope that helps

Edited March 14, 20215 yr by Draggendrop
spelling

On 3/14/2021 at 4:58 AM, Draggendrop said:

I only have the 2020 db so I did a quick look while waiting for another job to complete.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KABQ

03/21 and 08/26 are the same runway but only have instrument support in one direction and 12/30 has none. SID/STAR and alternate procedures are downloadable from the link.

Hope that helps

See Jeppesen charts: 08/26 is a completely other runway than 03/21.

• RW 21 and RW 26: Only have RNAV(RNP) approaches
• RW 03: Has ILS/LOC, RNAV(GPS) and RNAV(RNP) approaches
• RW 08: Has ILS/LOC, VOR, RNAV(GPS) and RNAV(RNP) approaches

The GTN750 is not authorized for RNAV(RNP) approaches, so they are not in the database; RNAV(GPS) approaches on the other are possible with the GTN750, so for KABQ only on 03 and 08.

You could do a RNAV(GPS) approach on RW 03 or RW 08 followed by a circling to 21 or 26 if the cloudbase is above 485 ft AGL and visibility better than 1 SM (cat 90 kts aircraft, for other cat aircraft see charts) .
A circling is not a visual approach, but a visual procedure flown under IFR, meaning the pilot is responsible for terrain clearance, not ATC. ATC will still be responsible for traffic seperation, depending on airspace class.
For circling RW 21 or 26 use DCT KABQ with OBS at GTN and course set at respectively 214 or 259.

The latest RNAV(GNS) charts for RW 26 and RW 21 are dated back 2018, so they would have been in the 2020 database if authorized for the equipment.

 

 

Edited March 16, 20215 yr by PeterBremer

I've been looking into some more details about this, but I'm certainly not an expert in PBN, so I'll just point you to some directions.

I've just checked in the GTN and there are the 2 RNAV (GPS) approaches available, both in the Garmin and the Jeppesen databases. However if you open the Charts, you'll also find the RNAV (RNP) approaches charts, and they are indicating (at least for the few I've opened) RADAR REQUIRED and AUTORIZATION REQUIRED. This sparkled my interest to search for more!

RADAR REQUIRED:

I've found an interesting article (to me at least):
https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article/radar-required-approaches-explained/

It seems this has nothing to do with "RNP" in itself, but for these charts this is a requirement nonetheless.

AUTORIZATION REQUIRED:

I did find 2 articles which are shedding some light about all this.

https://www.ifr-magazine.com/technique/rnav-versus-rnp/

Quote

Think of RNP as RAIM on steroids. In fact, in a PBN booklet, the Australian government writes, “In an aircraft utilizing a stand-alone GNSS, RNP is achieved through the use of Receiver Autonomous Integrity Monitoring (RAIM).” Here’s the rub: the stand-alone GNSS doesn’t qualify for the navigation specification RNP 0.3.

[...]

It’s important to note, none of the navigations specifications associated with installed equipment include procedures that have “authorization required” on the chart. Also, LP and LPV approaches are covered in a different AC.

 

https://bruceair.wordpress.com/tag/rnp/

Quote

(2) RNP Authorization Required Approach (RNP AR APCH). In the U.S., RNP AR APCH procedures are titled RNAV (RNP). These approaches have stringent equipage and pilot training standards and require special FAA authorization to fly. Scalability and RF turn capabilities are mandatory in RNP AR APCH eligibility. RNP AR APCH vertical navigation performance is based upon barometric VNAV or SBAS. RNP AR is intended to provide specific benefits at specific locations. It is not intended for every operator or aircraft. RNP AR capability requires specific aircraft performance, design, operational processes, training, and specific procedure design criteria to achieve the required target level of safety. RNP AR APCH has lateral accuracy values that can range below 1 in the terminal and missed approach segments and essentially scale to RNP 0.3 or lower in the final approach. Before conducting these procedures, operators should refer to the latest AC 90−101, Approval Guidance for RNP Procedures with AR. (See paragraph 5−4−18.)

 

I've configured the GTN AFMS settings to enable both RF Procedure Legs and Shadin Air Data but it doesn't show the RNAV (RNP) procedures either.

So at this stage, I don't know whether a real GTN would be offering these (RNP) approaches to IRL. If a GTN owner is confirming it does on his GTN, I'd very much like to know more about the equipment and the configuration of the real device in this case and try finding how to make these available in the simulated version as well.

1 hour ago, RXP said:

I've been looking into some more details about this, but I'm certainly not an expert in PBN, so I'll just point you to some directions.

I've just checked in the GTN and there are the 2 RNAV (GPS) approaches available, both in the Garmin and the Jeppesen databases. However if you open the Charts, you'll also find the RNAV (RNP) approaches charts, and they are indicating (at least for the few I've opened) RADAR REQUIRED and AUTORIZATION REQUIRED. This sparkled my interest to search for more!

RADAR REQUIRED:

I've found an interesting article (to me at least):
https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article/radar-required-approaches-explained/

It seems this has nothing to do with "RNP" in itself, but for these charts this is a requirement nonetheless.

AUTORIZATION REQUIRED:

I did find 2 articles which are shedding some light about all this.

https://www.ifr-magazine.com/technique/rnav-versus-rnp/

 

https://bruceair.wordpress.com/tag/rnp/

 

I've configured the GTN AFMS settings to enable both RF Procedure Legs and Shadin Air Data but it doesn't show the RNAV (RNP) procedures either.

So at this stage, I don't know whether a real GTN would be offering these (RNP) approaches to IRL. If a GTN owner is confirming it does on his GTN, I'd very much like to know more about the equipment and the configuration of the real device in this case and try finding how to make these available in the simulated version as well.

This is fully correct. If you would check the approvals for the GTN650/750 in the FAA AFMS (or for Europe the additional EASA AFMS) of the device as published by Garmin, you will find that it does not comply with RNP AR APCH. See page 14 of the FAA AFMS and you will not find a reference to AC 90-101.

Please note such AFMS must be edited by the installer of the equipment according the features of the full installation and thus made aircraft specific.

 

Radar required effectively means that two way radio communication is required and the procedure can not be used in a lost comm situation and radar service has to be available. In general TWR controllers are not allowed to give full radar service, but approach and departure controllers are.

Edited March 16, 20215 yr by PeterBremer

13 hours ago, PeterBremer said:

See Jeppesen charts: 08/26 is a completely other runway than 03/21.

• RW 21 and RW 26: Only have RNAV(RNP) approaches
• RW 03: Has ILS/LOC, RNAV(GPS) and RNAV(RNP) approaches
• RW 08: Has ILS/LOC, VOR, RNAV(GPS) and RNAV(RNP) approaches

The GTN750 is not authorized for RNAV(RNP) approaches, so they are not in the database; RNAV(GPS) approaches on the other are possible with the GTN750, so for KABQ only on 03 and 08.

You could do a RNAV(GPS) approach on RW 03 or RW 08 followed by a circling to 21 or 26 if the cloudbase is above 485 ft AGL and visibility better than 1 SM (cat 90 kts aircraft, for other cat aircraft see charts) .
A circling is not a visual approach, but a visual procedure flown under IFR, meaning the pilot is responsible for terrain clearance, not ATC. ATC will still be responsible for traffic seperation, depending on airspace class.
For circling RW 21 or 26 use DCT KABQ with OBS at GTN and course set at respectively 214 or 259.

The latest RNAV(GNS) charts for RW 26 and RW 21 are dated back 2018, so they would have been in the 2020 database if authorized for the equipment.

 

 

What are you going on about! I stated ...

"03/21 and 08/26 are the same runway but only have instrument support in one direction and 12/30 has none."

meaning 03/21 are the same, 08/26 are the same and 12/30 are the same. It is the directional notation and some runways do have directional services. 

 

6 hours ago, Draggendrop said:

What are you going on about! I stated ...

"03/21 and 08/26 are the same runway but only have instrument support in one direction and 12/30 has none."

meaning 03/21 are the same, 08/26 are the same and 12/30 are the same. It is the directional notation and some runways do have directional services. 

 

That is just how you write it:

• Incorrect text: 03/21 and 08/26 are the same runway
• Better: 03 and 21 are the same runway, also 08 and 26 are the same runway.

Further:

• Incorrect: ... only have instrument support in one direction ...
• Correct: 03/21 and 08/26 have instrument support in both directions, but for 21 and 26 the only direct ones are RNAV(RNP) instrument approaches, being RNP AR APCH types, for which the GTN750 is not approved.
  But you can still reach 21 and 26 via an instrument procedure/approach: a circling after a (RNAV or conventional) instrument approach on 03 or 08.

Edited March 17, 20215 yr by PeterBremer

The statement, in context with what was being discussed prior, should have been obvious to a veteran.

The construction of your responses confirms a trait what I have observed a few times over half a century in aviation.

Have a nice day and do not respond to me again...you will be ignored.

Please, not on the RXP forum. I don't know whether there is a "condensed" or a "formal" notation about these runways, nor whether there is a better one, and the point of the topic is not this. The bulk to me is raising knowledge and this question has certainly raised mine.