Flew into a mountain

[Chock 17,769]

9 minutes ago, Farlis said:

I know that. But nontheless the aircraft comes with a terrain display function that will give you minimum safe altitutes.

So I was wondering why that shouldn't be useful.

Didn't say it wasn't useful. 🙂

[Dave_YVR 973]

6 hours ago, ludekbrno said:

The pilot is responsible for avoiding the terrain in a real life, not ATC 😉 ATC is responsible only for avoiding the other traffic. So you always must use the approach charts for IFR flights.

IRL, the pilot doesn't know about vector altitudes or the minimum IFR altitudes being used by the ATC. The pic may have ultimately responsible for the safety of their aircraft, but ATC certainly does have responsibility with terrain separation. 

[sd_flyer 6,042]

4 minutes ago, Dave_YVR said:

IRL, the pilot doesn't know about vector altitudes or the minimum IFR altitudes being used by the ATC. The pic may have ultimately responsible for the safety of their aircraft, but ATC certainly does have responsibility with terrain separation. 

But we do know know MEA, OROCA. Also in recent years TAWS become more widespread and accessible and it helps a lot! I was vectored once right into the mountain top  while on IFR flight plan (but in VFR condition). I just said "unable due to terrain warning" and so "ATC allowed me to make 360 a gain enough altitude to cross"

[Dave_YVR 973]

Just now, sd_flyer said:

But we do know know MEA, OROCA.

MEA's and MOCA's are good for when on airways or published tracks etc but that's not always what is being used. Assigning vectors below MRVA's is a major no no. There's a lot more usable IFR altitudes that ATC might use than what you see on the chart in front of you.

[sd_flyer 6,042]

9 minutes ago, Dave_YVR said:

MEA's and MOCA's are good for when on airways or published tracks etc but that's not always what is being used. Assigning vectors below MRVA's is a major no no. There's a lot more usable IFR altitudes that ATC might use than what you see on the chart in front of you.

Still OROCA gives you piece of mind over MVA especially in IMC. As I mentioned above "unable" is valid response of PIC feel ATC instructions is unsafe. Over past decade in my area we had more than a dozen midairs while ATC was on duty vectoring airplanes. Under circumstances prior accident  both airplanes were talking to ATC in control airspace or both airplanes were on IFR flight plan. So  I would trust my life to ATC MVAs that I don't see unless I have no means to determining safe altitude

 

[Will Fly For Cheese 1,710]

12 hours ago, Malc said:

Yesterday I flew into a mountain in the Alps,A320 NEO. Very cloudy so not able to see where I was going. 

That's the problem.

Charts. Electronic or otherwise, and you'll avoid those mistakes.

You have some reading to do before you take your crew and pax up in to the wide blue yonder again.

This is good;

https://albar965.github.io/littlenavmap.html

So is this;

https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Terrain_Awareness

Learn. You're the Captain - it's your call where you put your wings.

If you need some Training on that look here;

http://code7700.com/pdfs/so_you_want_to_be_a_captain.pdf

I never want to see you Post that you flew an aircraft in to a CFIT (Controlled Flight In To Terrain) again.

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Will Fly For Cheese

[Dave_YVR 973]

34 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

Over past decade in my area we had more than a dozen midairs while ATC was on duty vectoring airplanes.

That's pretty unnerving, a stat like that would be bad enough if it was over the entire planet, let alone a small region.

[Malc 24]

58 minutes ago, Will Fly For Cheese said:

That's the problem.

Charts. Electronic or otherwise, and you'll avoid those mistakes.

You have some reading to do before you take your crew and pax up in to the wide blue yonder again.

This is good;

https://albar965.github.io/littlenavmap.html

So is this;

https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Terrain_Awareness

Learn. You're the Captain - it's your call where you put your wings.

If you need some Training on that look here;

http://code7700.com/pdfs/so_you_want_to_be_a_captain.pdf

I never want to see you Post that you flew an aircraft in to a CFIT (Controlled Flight In To Terrain) again.

 

Yes but to be honest it was a test to see if ATC would be giving me correct information, now I know it may not always be giving correct info I cannot see this happening again as I knew I was too low at the time. Would still have like to have heard " pull up low,terrain " Learning all the time, and I love this FS

[Malc 24]

Thanks fellas for all your kind responses, I love this forum and find it so helpful and at my age of 74 so enjoying the experiences of the flight simulator.

[sd_flyer 6,042]

2 hours ago, Dave_YVR said:

That's pretty unnerving, a stat like that would be bad enough if it was over the entire planet, let alone a small region.

ADS B is blessing for CFI. I can see traffic on GPS and on my Ipad!