Yesterday I flew into a mountain in the Alps,A320 NEO. Very cloudy so not able to see where I was going.  ATC told me to descend to 10,000 feet and bang that was the end. However there was no "terrain pull up " warning, do you think that is missing in the sim ? I have learnt that ATC are not to be trusted and is much worse than FSX ie I frequently get  "cancel IFR at this time" for no apparent reason "descend to 13,000 ft" when about 15 miles from touch down. Still a fantastic experience with this  FS it just has a few niggles with it.

I will not defend the ATC which is not so good but the pilot’s judgment should always override the ATC instructions if the safety of the flight is in jeopardy. You should have known where you were and act accordingly.😉

14 minutes ago, Malc said:

Yesterday I flew into a mountain in the Alps,A320 NEO. Very cloudy so not able to see where I was going.  ATC told me to descend to 10,000 feet and bang that was the end. However there was no "terrain pull up " warning, do you think that is missing in the sim ? I have learnt that ATC are not to be trusted and is much worse than FSX ie I frequently get  "cancel IFR at this time" for no apparent reason "descend to 13,000 ft" when about 15 miles from touch down. Still a fantastic experience with this  FS it just has a few niggles with it.

You dont need to 'see' where you are going, but you do need to trust your instruments. But foremost is situational awareness.   Reading the charts relative to your position would have told you a minimum safe altitude.   And your right. Dont trust MSFS ATC. Useless.   Your the captain. If ATC is telling you something that you know is unsafe , then dont do it.    Be sure to use the FBW versions. They have terrain warnings.  

Did you follow the appropriate charts? Following default ATC in and around mountains will mean more often than not that you'll end up like a fly on a windshield. Hit "cancel ifr" and fly the approach according to the relevant charts. 

The A320 has a very useful terrain radar.

2 hours ago, crimplene said:

The A320 has a very useful terrain radar.

I wish the real A320s had useful terrain radar!

4 minutes ago, Janov said:

I wish the real A320s had useful terrain radar!

What's not useful about the one they have? 

Because they dont have a terrain radar. The terrain is comming from a database, not from the radar.

37 minutes ago, Farlis said:

What's not useful about the one they have? 

The radar in the radome of the A320 is not a terrain radar, it is one which detects precipitation, dense storm clouds and such. I'm sure you actually knew that and so I daresay what you were thinking of is that the avionics in most airliners and some fancy GA aeroplanes with PFDs, can overlay a terrain map onto the PFDs from a database. People do occasionally rather loosely refer to it as the 'terrain radar', but it's not really anything to do with the actual radar system on the aeroplane.

Genuine terrain radars are found in ground attack warplanes such as the B-1 Lancer, F-111 Aardvark, MiG-27, Panavia Tornado etc; these can be slaved to an autopilot to have the aeroplanes use terrain masking automatically, to help avoid being tracked by guns and missiles by staying low. But of course they do also emit a radar wave in front of them, which is something that triple-A emplacements with radar warning receivers can detect, so using TFR in enemy-held territory is a bit like flying along with a megaphone yelling: 'here we come!'

Back on the original topic, it's as well to be aware of real incidents such as this one when relying on the ATC.

Edited April 27, 20215 yr by Chock

3 hours ago, Malc said:

Yesterday I flew into a mountain in the Alps,A320 NEO. Very cloudy so not able to see where I was going.  ATC told me to descend to 10,000 feet and bang that was the end. However there was no "terrain pull up " warning, do you think that is missing in the sim ? I have learnt that ATC are not to be trusted and is much worse than FSX ie I frequently get  "cancel IFR at this time" for no apparent reason "descend to 13,000 ft" when about 15 miles from touch down. Still a fantastic experience with this  FS it just has a few niggles with it.

So you should not allways belive what the ATC tell´s you..I am flying with Little NavMap on my side ( on the second of my tree Monitors i use ) there you allways see the elevaton in the altitude profile flight plan window under the upper plan window.

Not doeing one flight without LNM one off the best tools for MSFS - IMO.

 

cheers 😉

10 minutes ago, Chock said:

People do occasionally rather loosely refer to it as the 'terrain radar', but it's not really anything to do with the actual radar system on the aeroplane.

 

Looseley referring I was. And while sloppily expressing myself I carelessly thought "it probably isn't really a radar but I can't be arsed to bother". 🙂

Thanks for the explanation.

Edited April 27, 20215 yr by crimplene

43 minutes ago, crimplene said:

Looseley referring I was. And while sloppily expressing myself I carelessly thought "it probably isn't really a radar but I can't be arsed to bother". 🙂

I figured as much. I'd tend to call it a 'radar' even though it isn't one.

Interestingly with MSFS and it terrain generation possibilities, this is something which is going to be leveraged by MS for military technologies including the guidance systems of missiles, aeroplanes and by ground forces looking for more situational awareness. So if anyone was wondering why MSFS appeared to be so benevolent in creating a flight sim which was capable of streaming terrain data in real-time, it's worth knowing that they're are working on this technology for a number of other reasons, not least of which is that military application.

MS has a contract to create VR goggles for the US military which will synch-up with this data to provide improved situational awareness. Missiles such as the BGM-109 Tomahawk, use an electro-optical system to 'look' at the terrain they are flying over which is then compared to an image database of terrain which they carry on board in order to figure out where they are, but the more recent versions take this one step further by being able to receive data from AWACs, satellites etc, and more interestingly, since they are usually flying over enemy territory, they can also send real-time data about what they are 'seeing' to any forces linked into their network, which is what those VR goggles will be able to make use of. This for example, will be able to compare the regular terrain database with what they are currently seeing, and then work out if some military unit is hiding behind a hill from having detected any visual changes, unusual heat signatures etc. 

This is so they can do things like this airburst of a Tomahawk to destroy a warplane concealed by terrain masking:

Edited April 27, 20215 yr by Chock

5 hours ago, Malc said:

Yesterday I flew into a mountain in the Alps,A320 NEO. Very cloudy so not able to see where I was going.  ATC told me to descend to 10,000 feet and bang that was the end. However there was no "terrain pull up " warning, do you think that is missing in the sim ? I have learnt that ATC are not to be trusted and is much worse than FSX ie I frequently get  "cancel IFR at this time" for no apparent reason "descend to 13,000 ft" when about 15 miles from touch down. Still a fantastic experience with this  FS it just has a few niggles with it.

The pilot is responsible for avoiding the terrain in a real life, not ATC 😉 ATC is responsible only for avoiding the other traffic. So you always must use the approach charts for IFR flights.

Poor Malc. R.I.P.

😢

ATC in MSFS is beyond terrible.  I've made little short flights where they would tell me to climb to 20,000 ft.