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Guest allcott

FS-FORCE Any Real-PIlots Tried This Software?

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Hello, I have a question about this software. I have a Microsoft Forcefeedback 2 and in FS9 I get the bumps on the pavement and the gear thuds etc. So my next question is can this software really give me anything I don't already have? The next question is I have flown in a C-172RG a few times and had the controls at hand and when you drop the gear while on approach it is quite a feeling to experience that drag effect when you have always felt a yoke with a fixed gear plane. Well with that being said any aviators out there or someone that has had their hand's on the controls enough to understand what I am talking about tried this software? If so please enlighten me. Thanks, Josh

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Josh, It would be easier if you enlightened yourself. They offer a demo of the software that works only in the Seattle area and is time limited. Craig

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Josh, I have and it does. Use the search function and read the numerous topics already posted on this subject. There's no new information that would require repeating everything all over again, just for your benefit. Allcott

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Josh,As you probably know getting 100 percent realism on a home based computer is impossible.However, I recommend the Forceware because it makes my Logitech Pro Force Feedback usable (whereas before it was unusable... the stick would flail all over the place).However, if you're flying your little 152 and you're trimmed up for landing and you go around, don't expect to have to apply somewhat significant "arm muscle" to keep the nose from pitching up too much as you would have to in the real plane when you go full throttle.The Force Feedback joysticks aren't designed to simulate that kind of pressure, although it would be nice.-Bryan

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Fellow Simmers, Rgr that may give it a try. Thanks for the input though. I have some dual time in the logbook. But due to health complications the simulator is really all I am gonna have. With the little experience I have with flying I try to emulate things as close as I can get it. Thanks, Josh

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In real life, you do not feel bumps through the yoke from ground objects...... you don't feel it through the pedals either. in fact, you don't feel it at all. You also don't feel turbulence either. What you get is control stiffness and maybe some wind feedback if you wobble the controls around. For the most part, it's the plane that vibrates, not the actual controls. There isn't a realistic depiction of FF for FS, which is why MS themselves dropped the feature and FF accessories went out of fashion over the years for all games - it isnt real.

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>There isn't a realistic depiction of FF for FS, which is why>MS themselves dropped the feature and FF accessories went out>of fashion over the years for all games - it isnt real. Who cares? It is fun.

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>In real life, you do not feel bumps through the yoke from>ground objects...... you don't feel it through the pedals>either. in fact, you don't feel it at all. >>You also don't feel turbulence either. What you get is control>stiffness and maybe some wind feedback if you wobble the>controls around. >>For the most part, it's the plane that vibrates, not the>actual controls. >>There isn't a realistic depiction of FF for FS, which is why>MS themselves dropped the feature and FF accessories went out>of fashion over the years for all games - it isnt real. I basically agree... But I will disagree with you on dropping the gear and dirtying up a plane you do feel all that drag take effect in the yoke for a wee bit.

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Well, nitpicking but I sure do feel it in my stick when bumping around on the ground in real life. Small planes on grass fields bump around quite a bit and this causes the control surfaces to move around since they are only hinged, not dampened by hydrualics and such.Since they are directly connected to the stick and rudder pedals you

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>Well, nitpicking but I sure do feel it in my stick when>bumping around on the ground in real life. Small planes on>grass fields bump around quite a bit and this causes the>control surfaces to move around since they are only hinged,>not dampened by hydrualics and such.>Since they are directly connected to the stick and rudder>pedals you

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I'm with Tord. Yokes tend to feel more remote, but stick-controlled planes you can certainly feel the direct feedback between the grouind and the airplane through the control column. Sofa pilots cannot understand the feedback loop a real pilot gets. It's everywhere from the top of your head to the tips of your toes.Also, FS Force simulates nicely the stiffening of controls as the aircraft speeds up (or lightening if you're flying a late-mark Spit, for example) or if you wish, the `slop` in a cable-controlled system before airflow starts to to take effect. You can get truly accurate muscle strain if you wick up the effects and try flying a DC-3 at high speed with fast roll rates. There is also a nice bump-steer effect which is a good reminder you are on rough grass and need to slow down to avoid a prop strike.Perhaps the most useful tool is the ability to tailor these effects to suit yourself, and not have to rely on a designer who has abosultely no time in a real aircraft of the type modelled to tell you how it should `feel`. Even if that feel is heavy and uncomfortable.Saying that such things are not `real` are meningless in the context of talking about a desktop based simulation product. Unless you habitually throw the computer out the window to simulate stalling characteristics, or sim under a showerhead when you fly an open0-cockpit plane in the rain you're flying a computer, not an airplane, so all the audio, visual and feedback cues you can get can only enhance the experience. But as I've said before the single greatest asset of FS Force is realistic trimming. It's worth buying for that alone.Allcott

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I think the main benefit is more accurate trimming -- well as accurate as it gets. Hold the stick in position for airspeed, trim, stick stays put. Hands off flying.

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You guys just made me feel sad , because im a sofa pilot and not a real pilot. is there anything in between sofa and real pilot that i could fit in so i dont feel so bad about myself for simming for fifteen years.if i could get in a real plane and do what you pilots do i would have a long time ago.so im doing the next best thing, i take what im doing as serious as you pilots do when you fly. i have put more money in my passion than i care to think about.so i really do not want to be a sofa pilot but as for my health i shall remain a as you said a sofa pilot.this is not to offend no one , but i do take offense ( just a little) to the word Sofa pilot.i just wish i could put a sofa in a real plane and fly it:)Man i love this hobby........Robert

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Robert, if it makes you feel better the term sofa pilot is not so bad. My wife tends to use combinations of couch, slouch, potato and take out the trash you lazy bum... ;)

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>You guys just made me feel sad , because im a sofa pilot and>not a real pilot. is there anything in between sofa and real>pilot that i could fit in so i dont feel so bad about myself>for simming for fifteen years.>>if i could get in a real plane and do what you pilots do i>would have a long time ago.>>so im doing the next best thing, i take what im doing as>serious as you pilots do when you fly. i have put more money>in my passion than i care to think about.>>so i really do not want to be a sofa pilot but as for my>health i shall remain a as you said a sofa pilot.>>this is not to offend no one , but i do take offense ( just a>little) to the word Sofa pilot.>>i just wish i could put a sofa in a real plane and fly it:)>>Man i love this hobby........Robert>>If that expression causes you anguish when it is an accurate description, change yourself. We were all couch aviators once, nobody starts out with a licence. You don't get handed one, no matter who you are. Hollywood star or pool cleaner, everyone is equal behind the yoke of a plane. Except for instructors. Who are God, and know it.;)Flying lessons are cheaper than you think, and one flight in a real GA plane will teach you more about what is right and wrong about FS than any amount of couch flying. Either that, or get a better perspective on what you are actually doing. You aren't flying, not even close. It is as close to anything you are likely to find on a home computer but it is not aviating, it's simulation. On a couch. And while you shouldn't do yourself down for being a `simmer` not an `aviator`, (in my club there have been several instances where `simmer` has taught `aviator` a lesson or two), only a real aviator has the necessary perspective on what is `real` and the title of this thread invited REAL pilots to comment. The trim issue is something which a non-aviator cannot begin to appreciate, but is so important to pilots as you can see. Allcott

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Dont take me so serious , that is just what im doing, if i can get around my health problems, and your right my wife has called me worse than that......Robert

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Alcott,If you had read the gentleman's post more carefully you might have noted his genteel way of saying he can no longer pass the physical. There are more of us out here who are physically impaired than you may think, and we can't help but take umbrage at being told to "get off the sofa".Should you care to feel the challenge, try using only an MS joystick and go fly an FS9 rotor with full realism settings. And now you can use only your left hand. Let us know how it goes.Regards,JackD

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