I am really enjoying P2A as I find it a great way to learn phraseology while at the same time cranking up the immersion level. Great job Dave! 

I do have an issue I am trying to sort out, as mentioned in the subject. Here is the situation. I am pretty new to this stuff, so my assumption is I am missing something. 

For reference I have the latest Navigraph installed and in P2A it shows AIRAC 2212. Here is what I am doing...

Step 1: I create a flight plan in SimBrief.  My flight plan is from KDEN to KCOS. 

Step 2: I save this flight plan using FS 2020 pln format.

Step 3: I import the FP in P2A using the FP Import option, then choose SimBrief (and specify my Pilot ID).

Step 4: I validate the flight plan and I get this...

Step 5: I load MSFS and import the pln into the world map.

Step 6: I change the Gate in the drop down. 

Step 7: I click Fly and load the Honda Jet.

Step 8: I power up the HJet.

Step 9: I check the FP in the Honda Jet and it looks like this.

 

Step 10: I connect P2A to MSFS (it works) then File the FP.

At this point I see a lot more waypoints, and the SID was assigned. Here is what it looks like.

 

Step 11. I go into the Honda Jet and add the Departure procedure and Load it.  I have no idea which Transition to select. 

At this point this is what the map looks like in the Honda Jet...

Step 12: I get clearance from P2A, do the pushback, and taxi to runway 8 and take off. 

So far so good! 

Step 13: I take off and ATC directs me to fly to 10,000 feet. I get no direction from ATC regarding turning, which I expect to turn right to go south to KCOS. That call never comes, but I do get a lot of traffic calls. Maybe I jumped the gun? 

Step 14: I engage the Auto Pilot, making sure FMS is selected. The Honda Jet turns south.

I think everything is going well until the Honda Jet crosses the flight path on the Navigraph tablet, continuing to fly way further west. I am off course now, as far as Navigraph is concerned.  ATC does not tell me anything yet. On the Honda Jet display it does not appear that I am off course either, and this leads me to believe that once the FP was filed from P2A, something got messed up between P2A and MSFS. Either I didn't enter things right (very possible!) or my workflow is wrong. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. My assumption is that this is "user error" so hopefully this painfully long post provides enough evidence of that. 

Thanks!

Rob

Edited December 15, 20223 yr by RobJC

Several things seem to be going on here.

 - - First, if you want to fly the SIMBrief plan, you should turn off the options in P2A for "ATC Assigns SID" and "ATC Assigns STAR" so that the plan won't change on its own when you validate it in P2A.  Also, uncheck the option to "Auto Load Recommended Procedures" so that the approach is not added to the flight plan until it gets assigned by ATC later in the flight.

I would also check the option on the Import window to "Import Procs" so if a procedure is in the SIMBrief plan, it is also in P2A.  Since this is a relatively short flight, it would appear SIMBrief didn't specify these.

With these options, your plan in P2A should match the one in SIMBrief and in the aircraft.  As you get near the destination, you will be told what approach to expect and you can set up the aircraft GPS/FMC for that and if desired, enter it into P2A.  

- - As to what SID transition to choose, it appears that P2A chose the SABATH2 SID with no transition, ending at SABATH.  However, on such a short flight, a SID is not needed, and indeed, causes the plan to go past the airport before doubling back.

- - Regarding ATC turn instructions.  ATC will rarely give turn instructions if you are flying a published departure.  If there is a vector specified in the departure procedure, you will get a turn, but otherwise you would not.  On takeoffs without a departure, you would probably get a turn to heading as part of the takeoff clearance that would give you an intercept to the filed first track or would put you on a course to the first waypoint in the plan.

Hope that helps,

Dave

In terms of workflow, I would do it slightly different.  The objective is to ensure that the plan you File in P2A matches what you start with in the SIM. So, in general, I would do the following:

1. Create plan in SIMBrief
2. Import SIMBrief Plan, with Procedures into P2A
3. If you want P2A to select procedures, press the "Auto Plan" button in P2A
4. Validate the plan in P2A
5. Export the plan from P2A to the MSFS format
6. Load the plan into MSFS and select the Gate
7. Connect to MSFS and File the plan. (There should be no changes in P2A plan because you already used the Auto Plan)
8. Check to be sure that your P2A plan matches what is loaded in the aircraft
9. If needed, make changes to your Navigraph plan so it displays correctly for you.  This step is not necessary for P2A ATC to work correctly, just so your Navigraph map and P2A are in synch.

2 hours ago, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

In terms of workflow, I would do it slightly different.  The objective is to ensure that the plan you File in P2A matches what you start with in the SIM. So, in general, I would do the following:

1. Create plan in SIMBrief
2. Import SIMBrief Plan, with Procedures into P2A
3. If you want P2A to select procedures, press the "Auto Plan" button in P2A
4. Validate the plan in P2A
5. Export the plan from P2A to the MSFS format
6. Load the plan into MSFS and select the Gate
7. Connect to MSFS and File the plan. (There should be no changes in P2A plan because you already used the Auto Plan)
8. Check to be sure that your P2A plan matches what is loaded in the aircraft
9. If needed, make changes to your Navigraph plan so it displays correctly for you.  This step is not necessary for P2A ATC to work correctly, just so your Navigraph map and P2A are in synch.

Thanks for the quick reply, Dave. Great support! 

To be more clear, I don't want to use/force the simbrief FP. I just want a way to make sure that the directions I am getting from ATC (P2A) matches what I am seeing inside the plane and on my Navigraph chart.  Based on the 9 steps you outlined above, what would the settings be from your first reply...

2 hours ago, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

you should turn off the options in P2A for "ATC Assigns SID" and "ATC Assigns STAR" so that the plan won't change on its own when you validate it in P2A.  Also, uncheck the option to "Auto Load Recommended Procedures" so that the approach is not added to the flight plan until it gets assigned by ATC later in the flight.

I would also check the option on the Import window to "Import Procs" so if a procedure is in the SIMBrief plan, it is also in P2A.  Since this is a relatively short flight, it would appear SIMBrief didn't specify these.

Thanks again Dave! 

Edited December 16, 20223 yr by RobJC

Assuming a longer flight, where SIDs and STARs might make sense, you could leave the "ATC Assigns SID" and "ATC Assigns STAR" options turned on.  But on short flights I would leave them off.  Leaving the Auto Load option turned off lets you get a plan direct to the destination airport and then get an update en-route as to approach to be assigned.  This is more realistic, but a little more complicated to perform, than having the approach entered before takeoff.  Also, with "Auto Load..." turned off, you would have to enter any SIDs or STARs manually, if they were assigned by ATC.

If you do that, you will very often get changes to the plan when you AutoPlan or File.  I would use AutoPlan so you can know what to expect when you file.  You will also have to update the Navigraph plan since it would not reflect any of the changes made by P2A.

Dave

Edited December 16, 20223 yr by Dave-Pilot2ATC

Thanks again Dave. I am going to do a test flight to see how these changes react. I really appreciate your help! 

Okay Dave, I did a test flight from KDEN to KTEX. Here is what happened. I got a warning from ATC that I was off course. The Navigraph chart also showed that I was starting to go off course. But in the aircraft I was NOT off course, based on the flight plan showing on screen. Here are some screen shots when things started going off course...

I guess the good news is it looks like P2A and Navigraph agree. But I must have missed something inputting data into MSFS. I imported the file into MSFS the way you described. 

Judging from the pictures, the aircraft doesn't have waypoint HERRM so you are going straight to PEAKD, which is south of HERRM.

Make sure to check the waypoints in the GPS vs P2A after you get everything set up.

Dave

 

Thanks again Dave! Okay, looking at this...

It looks like the FP I am exporting out of P2A and into MSFS does not include a lot of data. 

I am going to add the waypoint HERRM to the flight plan and see if things make more sense. 

You really need to check the waypoints in the GPS.  I've found the map page in MSFS doesn't always show all the waypoints....not sure why.

If you email the exported flight plan to me ([email protected]), I can look to be sure it has all the waypoints in it.

Dave

Thanks Dave. Sent! 

HERRM is in the exported flight plan.  If it's not showing in the GPS after import, the one thing I can think of is that you don't have the same AIRAC cycle in MSFS as you do in Navigraph and P2A.  

If that's the case, then you wouldn't be able to manually enter HERRM.

Dave

7 minutes ago, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

HERRM is in the exported flight plan.  If it's not showing in the GPS after import, the one thing I can think of is that you don't have the same AIRAC cycle in MSFS as you do in Navigraph and P2A.  

If that's the case, then you wouldn't be able to manually enter HERRM.

Dave

I was able to add the waypoint HERRM in FMS. I also checked and both MSFS and P2A have the same rev of Navigraph. So the conclusion is that the data coming from P2A is all not being imported into MSFS,  so I should input the FP manually in the aircraft FMS?

Okay I think it works now after adding the HERRM waypoint. The trick is, I have to add it BEFORE I add the approach info in the FMS.

Doing another test flight. THANK YOU for all your help. I am a big fan of the support you provide your customers (even before they become customers)!