I discovered a strange behavior with PMDG when using AAO normal axis assignment for Elevator (instead of using the built in MSFS binding).

With the 737 by PMDG, the aircraft doesn't react or not predictable when you are at the point of landing where you need to flare. it just doesn't react by pulling the stick or reacts unpredictable, which makes it almost impossible to Flare the Aircraft. the strange thing it only happens during flare but not during flight. it's like the PMDG during that stage of flight doesn't read the Elevator Axis input fed by AAO correctly or PMDG uses different algorithm during flare that somehow doesn't work well with AAO Axis input.

I only!! experienced this on PMDG 737. all other aircrafts, rather built-in Aircrafts or other vendors Aircrafts addons, working fine and react to flare input fine without an issue.

Another point I want to express is that I tried on two separated Yoke systems. the Cessna Yoke by SAITEK and the TCA BEOING Yoke. both experienced the same. so I am sure it is not a yoke or a yoke brand.

has anyone else noticed this behavior? very hard to flare the PMDG 737 when assigning the Elevator Axis through AAO?

Edited May 29, 20242 yr by Akila

In general, MSFS prefers that you assign Events (second box from the top) over Variables (first box). AAO is just a translator between your hardware and the MSFS SDK, there is always a multitude of options how a specific control wants to be assigned for a specific aircraft.

Did you try the events too? The most relevant flight control axis events are duplicated in the very first group of the treelist. I suggest deleting your current assignment and creating a new one with the AXIS_ELEVATOR_SET event. It would probably be a good idea to do that for all your assignments.

Edited May 29, 20242 yr by Lorby_SI

Selecting the Event does indeed mitigates the issue and solves the problem. 

I am trying to understand better if you don't mind explaining in details.
What is the difference in MSFS between Select Simulator Axis = Elevator  vs. Select Simulator event = AXIS_ELEVATOR_SET??
And If the "Event" is the desired one to use, what is the purpose of the option of selecting Select Simulator Axis for? for what type of use case?
and why does it have only negative effect on PMDG and only on flare??

 

 

Another question:
Is there a difference between selecting it from the "!! Flight Control axis" or from "Elevator" tree?

Edited May 29, 20242 yr by Akila

4 hours ago, Akila said:

I discovered a strange behavior with PMDG when using AAO normal axis assignment for Elevator (instead of using the built in MSFS binding).

With the 737 by PMDG, the aircraft doesn't react or not predictable when you are at the point of landing where you need to flare. it just doesn't react by pulling the stick or reacts unpredictable, which makes it almost impossible to Flare the Aircraft. the strange thing it only happens during flare but not during flight. it's like the PMDG during that stage of flight doesn't read the Elevator Axis input fed by AAO correctly or PMDG uses different algorithm during flare that somehow doesn't work well with AAO Axis input.

I only!! experienced this on PMDG 737. all other aircrafts, rather built-in Aircrafts or other vendors Aircrafts addons, working fine and react to flare input fine without an issue.

Another point I want to express is that I tried on two separated Yoke systems. the Cessna Yoke by SAITEK and the TCA BEOING Yoke. both experienced the same. so I am sure it is not a yoke or a yoke brand.

has anyone else noticed this behavior? very hard to flare the PMDG 737 when assigning the Elevator Axis through AAO?

It's very difficult to form an opinion when there isn't much information available.

From your statement, this is happening only on the PMDG.

Questions:

Are you at Vref or Vref+5?

When do you start your flare and power reduction?

Suggestion to narrow down this:

Try to do an autoland and see if the issue is still there.

18 minutes ago, Akila said:

And If the "Event" is the desired one to use, what is the purpose of the option of selecting Select Simulator Axis for? for what type of use case?

That depends on the aircraft and the simulator (FSX and P3D usually prefer the first option). The difference is that the first box writes the axis value to a simulator variable, while the second writes to simulator events. You can also use LVars, Scripts, BVars and HVars. Which one of these endless options works best (or at all) for a certain aircraft must be found out for each new model.

And that is true for buttons too. You never know what a specific button requires to actuate it, unless you check the behavior code in the MSFS developer mode. 

 

31 minutes ago, Akila said:

Is there a difference between selecting it from the "!! Flight Control axis" or from "Elevator" tree?

No difference. The most important flight control events have been duplicated in that special group so they are easier to find.

10 minutes ago, LRBS said:

Questions:

Are you at Vref or Vref+5?

  Vref+5

 

10 minutes ago, LRBS said:

Questions:

When do you start your flare and power reduction?

around 20-10ft above the RWY.

  

10 minutes ago, LRBS said:

Questions:

Try to do an autoland and see if the issue is still there.

I only do manual landing. also Autoland is not applicable as AAO input is not part of the equation (no Axis input are applied).
as I stated in my initial post, with in Sim axis settings (MSFS Settings in the Simulator) there is no issues , so it is combination of AAO input and PMDG at flare. 

 

 

Edited May 29, 20242 yr by Akila

5 minutes ago, Akila said:

  Vref+5

 

around 20-10ft off the RWY.

  

I only do manual landing. also Autoland is not applicable as AAO is not part of the equation (no Axis input are applied).
with in Sim axis settings there is no issues , so it is combination of AAO input and PMDG at flare. 

 

 

From my real past experience with the 737 (a long time ago), the airplane lands pretty easily. 

Thou I find the PMDG ground effect not quite right, if you have time you might change a bit the ground effect and see if is still doing what you describing.

 

Try changing this in flight_model.cfg

// GROUND EFFECT (vs Mach ????)

 

lift_coef_ground_effect_mach_table=0.054000:0.281100, 0.100000:0.275000, 0.200000:0.264625, 0.300000:0.261575, 0.400000:0.259975, 0.500000:0.258750, 0.600000:0.257475, 0.700000:0.256525, 0.800000:0.255075, 0.900000:0.253500, 1.000000:0.250000

 

to only this

lift_coef_ground_effect_mach_table=0.054:1.1

 

See if it helps, please.

2 minutes ago, LRBS said:

to only this

lift_coef_ground_effect_mach_table=0.054:1.1

 

See if it helps, please.

isn't that settings when you are on the ground already? I am still in the air trying to flare to reach the ground.

8 minutes ago, Akila said:

isn't that settings when you are on the ground already? I am still in the air trying to flare to reach the ground.

no

@LRBS so that raises another question. if I set only one value as you suggested, what would be the effect on other then 0.054 Mach speed (as none are set)?

and another question, I noticed that with the PMDG when flaring, it just loves to float in the air for ages like it doesn't want to come down. some times it might even climb (even when power is idle).
that causes me to want and cut off the power like 50ft or even 100ft off the ground to reach near stall speed to force the plane when flaring not to be able and float forever. It even floats at 125-130kts when the Vref is around 145Kts, that is ridicules.
Are those settings you suggested should mitigate that issue as well?

Edited May 29, 20242 yr by Akila

38 minutes ago, Akila said:

@LRBS so that rases another question. if I set only one value as you suggested, what would be the effect on other then 0.054 Mach speed (as none are set)?

and another question, I noticed that with the PMDG when flaring, it just loves to float in the air for ages like it doesn't want to come down. some times it might even climb.
that causes me to want and cut off the power like 50ft off the ground just to lose Kts that the plane won't be able and float forever. are those settings you suggested should mitigate that issue as well?

I took the middle point, it works fine on my end without any interpolations.

With my settings, I don't observe that floating. I use turbulence factor to low.

In real life, we start reducing power by 30 feet and reach idle at touchdown along with the flare. Of course, there are different techniques, but if you watch closely during autoland, the airplane will just do that. 

To be honest, it was much better in P3D.

I'll try those settings you suggested. thanks for your tip...

2 minutes ago, Akila said:

I'll try those settings you suggested. thanks for your tip...

I hope it works well.