Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

flightluuvr

need tips on ILS approaches/landings

Recommended Posts

i dont know what i am doing wrong, out of the maybe 10 landings ive recently tried, i only got 2 good landings.so far i know to set nav1 freq to the runway ils freq, switch it over to the primary nav thing.and to set things straight, i am using the FSX default 737to get the plane to turn to final, what should the AP be set to? APP or VOR LOC?should i have flight director on or off?and i think the last thing i can think of is, do i keep alt hold on for the duration of the approach/landing?my latest landing attempts had me descending too fast and another time i was too high, and this is after i activate the APP buttonmy latest attempt can be viewed here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMsJ7EHtlNYnow back to the speed thing, i found a tutorial on these forums, and it says to be at 180 KIAS at 10 nm out, but some people tell me that thats too fast and i should be at 130 kias, so that makes me ask, what speed should i be at?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

>to get the plane to turn to final, what should the AP be set>to? APP or VOR LOC?You want to capture the localizer, which provides lateral guidance, first. So once the indicator begins to move, push the VOR LOC button. The AP will then line the a/c up with the runway.>should i have flight director on or off?Always leave this on.>and i think the last thing i can think of is, do i keep alt>hold on for the duration of the approach/landing?No. Watch the glide slope indicator. It will come alive. At that point, push the GS button. The AP will now follow the glide slope. You will still have to land the plane, but you can wait until you are close to the runway before disengaging AP and AT, if you're using it.> and it says to be at 180 KIAS at 10 nm out, but some>people tell me that thats too fast and i should be at 130>kias, so that makes me ask, what speed should i be at?I don't fly this plane, but 180 kts at 10nm sounds about right. FSX recommends 140 kts and flaps 30 for landing, but of course, ideal landing speed is contingent upon weight. Still, 180kts would be too fast.You want to slow down as you get nearer the airfield. As you do this, you will gradually be adding flaps. You'll keep doing this until you get into landing configuration.I don't know the flaps/speed schedule. Look for it. Maybe someone who flies this plane will add to my post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to reiterate what Alex has said:"...switch it over to the primary nav thing."If by this you mean the NAV/GPS mode switch then yes, the switch should be set to NAV."to get the plane to turn to final, what should the AP be set to? APP or VOR LOC?"You should fly the initial approach path in HDG mode which will make it easier to turn on to the runway intercept course; it is also easier to follow ATC directions in HDG mode. When you are:1) low enough to be below the glideslope,2) you are in HDG mode lined up on the runway heading, and3) both glideslope and localiser indicators are active then you hit the APP button, sit back and enjoy this marvel of aviation technology.In order to be low enough to be below the gildeslope you will want to be about a couple of thousand feet above the runway and say between 10 and 20 miles back from the threshold depending on how fast you are travelling."should i have flight director on or off?"This depends on the particular plane, some planes won't let you engage the AP without the flight director being on. But as far the functioning of the glideslope and localiser indicators are concerned the flight director merely provides backup information on how to steer the plane."...so that makes me ask, what speed should i be at?"With full flaps the 737 should fly the glidelope at about 130 knots depending on the altitude of the runway and your remaining fuel weight. A good rule of thumb is to watch the attitude indicator, set flaps to close to full deployment, and adjust the speed so than the nose is about 5 degrees above the horizon. This makes it easier to flare just before landing.Mike.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to add my .02:Load the approach into the GPS- ILS 24L vectors to final- set radio Nav1 to ILS freq- verify runway elevation approx 800 ft.Using the vectors to final path on the GPS, maneuver to to intercept the start point of the approach about 30 degrees or less off centerline, alt about 2000 ft AGL (i.e., about 3000 ft MSL)Set MCP speed about 200 kts (flaps 0 mms)FD OnA/T ArmAP CMD onLateral mode HDG SEL (on intercept course)Vertical mode ALT HLD (at 3000)Speed mode SPD (at 200)Course selector app course (253 per GPS)ND app displayYou should see your ILS tuned in your PFD, as you approach the approach intercept point you should see both the localizer course deviation indicator and glideslope deviation indicator on your PFD.As you approach the intercept point, press APP to arm the approach (lateral and vertical) HDG SEL and ALT HLD will remain active.For landing weight 120,000 lbs / 55,000 kg Vref 40 is about 130 so shoot for 135 (Vref 40 + 5). Of course, with winds you may need to add speed. More weight more speed, less weight less speed.As you get close to the intercept (localizer capture) you can start slowing, set 160 kts for starters. Set flaps per (while slowing):200 flaps 1180 flaps 5160 flaps 10When you get close to the approach course, the localizer needle should begin to move and the AP should capture the localizer (lateral mode will show as LOC above PFD). You should still be in vertical mode ALT HLD and glideslope needle shows you low (below GS). If you time it right you should be at about 160 kts flaps 10 as the glideslope needle starts moving down. AP should capture the glideslope (vertical mode will show as GS above the PFD). As you capture the glideslope GEAR DOWN.Continue to slow to Vref 40 + 5 (135kts). Set flaps per:150 flaps 15140 flaps 30arm spoilersset autobrake as desiredobserve needles and stabilized on the approach at 1000 ft AGL (use the radio altimeter on PFD) -- speed 135 flaps 30 within +/- 1/2 dot localizer and glideslope.When glideslope captured, set missed appr alt into MCP alt window. If no chart guestimate about 3000 ft AGL (4000 ft MSL)between 700 and 200 ft AGL disengage A/T and AP and fly by hand to the flare, touchdown, and rollout.If you seem too fast, drop gear sooner to aid in slowing.scott s..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One note as I ran into this problem early on in my armchair pilot career: the simulator's ATC instructions usually have you come in too fast, too high or on the wrong vector and unless you have an F16, you're going to have a heck of a time doing an ILS approach in most cases. As is said above, a navigation helper and a good STAR chart will help you plan your approach so outside of the aircraft configuration, you can capture the localizer and glideslope correctly for the airport you select by knowing how you're supposed to fly it. For US based airports, I get those from the FAA's web site herehttp://www.avn.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tppI also found that flying online on VATSIM or IVAO is actually quite helpful because the approach controller will give you the correct instructions for an ILS approach (provided you've requested that).Hope this helps,Etienne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd suggest learning to fly an approach by hand first-on a slower airplane like a c172. That is how most learn in rw, and there is nothing more satisfying than flying a succesful hand flown approach. :-beerchugPersonally I hardly ever use the autopilot in fs or rw-after all-you really are not flying-a machine is.....and yes-furious atc instructions coming rapidly, and reading charts at the same time flying is one of the biggest challenges of flying imc-especially in New York airspace ...GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for the tips everyone, i printed out some of them and will hope to try them out very soon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

scott967, thank you very much for your help, i found your guide to be very helpful in doing what i wanted to do, thank you very much :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>i dont know what i am doing wrong, out of the maybe 10>landings ive recently tried, i only got 2 good landings.>>so far i know to set nav1 freq to the runway ils freq, switch>it over to the primary nav thing.>>and to set things straight, i am using the FSX default 737>>to get the plane to turn to final, what should the AP be set>to? APP or VOR LOC?>>should i have flight director on or off?>>and i think the last thing i can think of is, do i keep alt>hold on for the duration of the approach/landing?>>my latest landing attempts had me descending too fast and>another time i was too high, and this is after i activate the>APP button>my latest attempt can be viewed here:>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMsJ7EHtlNY>>>now back to the speed thing, i found a tutorial on these>forums, and it says to be at 180 KIAS at 10 nm out, but some>people tell me that thats too fast and i should be at 130>kias, so that makes me ask, what speed should i be at?Here is how I do it and it has always worked for me...I will use the numbers that I use with the FSX 737 here. Note that I always make sure my fuel for landing is around or below 30% capacity. Most commercial flights land with little fuel because taking on extra fuel actually causes more fuel to be burnt (tankering). Some extra is taken in case of emergency or diversion.15 miles out:SPEED: 210, FLAPS: 10, GEAR: up, HDG: 45 degrees or LESS off of the runway heading, ALTITUDE: around 2-3,000'AGL, NAV1: set to ILS frequency and IDENT ON (so you'll know when to switch to APP/GS), Autopilot: VOR/LOC, ALT, HDG, SPD10 miles out:SPEED: 180, FLAPS: 20, GEAR: up, ILS is probably now active (IDENT beeping) so switch from VOR/LOC to APP/GS. Make sure the ALT button did not go off (it will if the ILS frequency is not yet in range), should be intercepting the localizer and be well under the glideslope.GLIDESLOPE ACTIVE:(this is when you see the glideslope indicator start moving)SPEED 135-150 depending on weight, GEAR: down, FLAPS 30, Check attitude on HSI when plane stabilizes on glideslope. If nose is high, increase speed, if nose is low, decrease speed. Good time to adjust outside view if neccessary.That should get you down towards the runway without any problems. Remember to kill the autopilot around 100' AGL and arrest the descent (flare) just before touchdown. Happy flying!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I forgot to mention...Cut the throttle at about 50' AGL or the plane will float over the runway. You can either lower the speed setting on the autopilot or kill the autothrottle and press F1.Also, you'll want to arm your speedbrakes and autobrake sometime before you land. I usually do it very early while waiting for the glideslope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites