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rhodges

What Tropical Storm?

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Sitting at Tallahassee, FL (KTLH), runway 18 in the Ultralight. Winds 154 degrees at 11kts and gusting to 26kts.Why is the Ultralight not rocking all over the runway? Went to spot view and the wings are hardly moving at all.Is this another feature not addressed in FSX or do I not have something set properly.Regards,Richard

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Rob,Just the default FSX real weather download. Weather screen was reporting the same as the Shift+Z display.Jim,Good point though I'm don't recall. I'll take a look at the Display settings. Card is nvidia 8800GT.Regards,Richard

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I don't think it does much at all when sitting on the runway. I had the Accel helo sitting on the pad in the storm and it was barely moving as well. Soon as I left the ground though, I got blown across the tarmac. LOLLarry

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The FS flight model isn't realistic. Aircraft can sort of fly by the numbers, but anything that requires a semblance of physics and it won't (can't) do it.Just watch how aircraft can defy gravity once they go outside the FS envelope - it's rubbish.Best regards,Robin.

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>> How would you expect them to behave outside the FS envelope?I wouldn't expect the weirdness that you can get them to achieve.Forget the fact this guy is using the AP to takeoff - watch how the FSX flight model reacts!!!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a06lS9ONVkgThat isn't realistic, and is a good example of what happens when you take aircraft outside the normal flight envelope.If it was vaguely based on physics, it couldn't do that.There are numerous things real aircraft do in bad situations that FS is oblivious to.I think in the next version of FS, MS should introduce a new flight model.The FS flight model is so poor, you can't even model helicopters properly.Best regards,Robin.

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Interested on which fm for any present sim satisfies you?The default fs Baron is the closest I have seen to my real baron though there could be improvements. (dr hopefully?)If there is better in another sim please let me know-I will be the first to jump ship! As for outside the normal flight envelope-I've never done that and never will-where does one get realistic data for that? Who would vouch for realism here? I can at least vouch for realism in normal flight (at least nothing better yet). To vouch for what you want I don't think I'd be alive to report about it ):-Is there a reason one would want to fly outside normal flight parameters?- Faa action, law suits,loss of licence?

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It's not so much that as a lack of consequence for poor flying. Simply stalling can lead to bizarre and wholly unrealistic effects.Even if the behavior outside the normal flight envelope isn't 100% as the real thing would behave, anything that is more realistic would be better than what we get presently.I know recently there have been efforts to better simulate spin behavior, but not all flight models do this, and others do this to varying degrees (either by design or accidental).Take high-speed flight (especially mach buffet/tuck) - surely this is possible within the FS flight model??I've successfully managed to simulate the required zero pitch angle accel that the SR-71 requires to go supersonic with reheat.Without reheat and the pitch manouver, it isn't possible to go supersonic, and after Mach 1.25 it can super-cruise. I've captured that fantastically.The problem is that if you exceed MMO (in the real thing) it suffers a severe pitch up tendency that I haven't as yet found a way to simulate.FS is further limited in that Mach 4 appears to be the fastest a jet can fly, but I have it on good authority it can make "M4.5 plus".Best regards,Robin.

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I found no video card or FS config setting to allow better interaction with surface level winds.Apparently the sim is limited in that area.

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I don't think it does much at all when sitting on the runway.I don't know about FS weather, but Active Sky can give it to you for sure!I flew into VHHH in PMDG 747 a few days ago. Using ASX weather (Aug. 22), approach instructed me to land 25R. Winds were 200@38, gusting 49. (BTW, this was a flight from KORD: a little over 7,000nm and 16 hrs).I had one go-around. After landing, it was a bit of an adventure, to say the least. The winds definitely wanted to push me around, even after flaps were up. If I was heading/with the wind, I had to monitor my taxi speed pretty closely. Cross-wind it wanted to mess with my path.Can't say this was fun necessarily, but seemed realistic enough to me. Thank you Active Sky (I think ;-) )!Regards,

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Why Oh why do some insist on flying "outside the normal envelope"?As an old CFI of years past, I had enough trouble teaching students how to fly inside the thing. Most light aircraft of a training catagory are amazingly forgiving, but if one works hard enough at it with enough different temptations put together, they do run out of patience. The result is always very sad.One individual who wanted to fly out of the box earned me a subpoena to an FAA hearing as a witness. Thankfully, I only had two or three hours with him, and discovered a gaggle of other flight instructors present in the courtroom as well. Some were there because the guy had entries in his log book by them (regrettably like me), and some were there to relay things that they had simply witnessed. To my astonishment, I heard 72 paragraphs read against the guy in violation of FAA regulations. The character defended himself. It almost seemed like a TV drama and truthfully, my apprehension turned into amusement. The authorities finally asked who all of the witnesses were that had little to contribute by comparison, heard us, and dismissed us to go back to work (darn it!). You might not believe what little I personally witnessed. For sure you would not believe some of what I heard. A fellow instructor and friend at the airport where I flew who was also the local designated FAA Examiner used to say, "When we get into another war, we want this guy." Yea, my friend got a subpoena too. And yes, the guy's ticket was pulled on a permanent basis as far as I know.Inside the box is difficult enough for me. I don't need any provisions out of it.Respectfully:RTH

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>> Why Oh why do some insist on flying "outside the normal envelope"?I don't, but it would be nice if the aircraft reacted semi-realistically when you did. :)Best regards,Robin.

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Beechcraft Safety communiques 147 and 192 state for Beech Baron's:"The test program confirms (for the Beech Baron):1. Recovery from a developed spin in a multi-engine airplane is, for a variety of reasons, unpredictable;it is possible, especially when the airplane is stalled under asymmetric power, to encounter a spinfrom which recovery cannot be effected. The greater the asymmetric thrust and the longer it isallowed to continue, the greater the change that an unrecoverable spin could be encountered."Note the word "unpredictable". Seems that would be kind of hard to program unpredictable "realistically" as you mention....and... since only a few test pilots (and a few unlucky ones that probably didn't survive) truly know what "realistic" is it would be quite difficult.Also from these documents" only qualified test pilots performing test manuevers should spin these aircraft"...it also mentions due to the unpredictable effects that some recoveries from the test spins (and there were only 97 attempted)were only accomplished by parachute.It also states that "normal" category aircraft are prohibited from spins by the Faa. How many default Msfs aircraft are normal category? So it seems reasonable to me for normal category aircraft that flying outside the envelope and thus programming for one doing that aspect would be a waste for all the above reasons. For aerobatic and rated aircraft that are designed to fly outside normal envelopes I would agree.GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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I would rather the developers program overstress and destroy the aircraft rather than have it flop around and do physics defying maneuvers. I think most of us who are regulars at these forums strive for some semblance of realism.One of the most crucial is to fly the aircraft and interact within the virtual sim world as you would in the real world.Accept the maniac ai pilots, the 3 stooges ran ATC,cartoonish FSX graphics,occassional CTD and you can have a decent virtual aviation world in which to fly. You gotta remeber we are a small but vocal % of sim flyers.This is how 3/4 of how my family,freinds, and co-workers react when I hand over the joystick to them.1st off, there is one speed. Wide A** open.Second.Question- "Wheres the dam guns?"" You Cant shot nothing?"as they frantically press the trigger button.And third. With nothing to shoot or blow up, they quickly bore and ask,"Got a beer?"

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Totally agree with your last paragraph. That is why imho many sims come and go but fs stays-while it is never everything to everybody it gives enough to everyone for them to keep coming back-though never completely happy.GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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>>> Why Oh why do some insist on flying "outside the normal>envelope"?>>I don't, but it would be nice if the aircraft reacted>semi-realistically when you did. :)I agree partially - I don't particularly care if it reacts realistically (as Geofa says this is a. unpredictable and b. not feasible to verify due to lack of real world data), but it would be good if it at least simulated the severity of the consequences. In other words, if your mistake would terminate your flight in real life, it should terminate your flight in FS. At least on the "realistic" difficulty setting.I can understand that this would be less useful for trained pilots who know where the boundaries are and instinctively stay within them, but for people like me who have limited flight experience it would help us to understand not only what the rules are, but why they are what they are. For example I learned recently that you're not supposed to touch down in a light aircraft until the stall horn sounds, having been quite happily landing well above stalling speed for ages. It would have been quite instructive to have some indication of the damage I was doing to my virtual Cessna.Colin

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Colin:Your logic has some merit and your case at least partially is well taken, but only to a point IMHO.Where to draw the line seems to be in question and the envelope may need to be better defined. By that, I mean that your example of coming in hot for a landing may or may not be outside of the envelope. A case might even be made for intentially performing in this way which would be inside the envelope under some conditions (with limitations). Virtually all aircraft are capable of landing without holding them off until your stall warning horn goes off and I do not believe this techincally violates the envelope (as long as you have enough runway before the plane is willing to slow down). In MOST cases, this would probably only mean needless wear and tear on the aircraft and very poor pilot technique. However, for example, to land a tail wheel aircraft with a wheel landing (NOT a full stall landing) the speed would have to be at least slightly above stall speed. Incidently, this old CFI of ages past believes all student pilots would be better off if they learned their lessons until solo in such an aircraft (Yea I am old, but I bet I am still not alone in this belief). A case might be made for this with FS as well, but I never really thought about it until now.I think what we are talking about are speeds above the maximum speed of the aircraft and maneuvers that exceed the design, altitude, or some other limitation of the aircraft in question. (i.e. aircraft below aerobatic capabilities which are put under such conditions). Who knows what would happen ( and lives to tell about it)? Probably red line engine specifications should be added to this. In any case, wear and tear on the aircraft may be the only result as many are very forgiving up to a point.For anyone who wants wild reactions that might or not be well defined, I would assume that there are countless programs available that would give such results. I have to confess that FS is my only passion relative to computer games, and the need for such is somewhat lost on me, however, to each his own.Respectfully:RTH

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