In GA, how does one navigate to a VOR blocked by terrain behind a departure runway? Using the GNS 530, should I just use GPS mode and hand fly to the VOR? 

Yep, that's what I would do. Tune it up and fly your departure and pick it up. Who wants to fly VOR to VOR these days😜.

VFR that is fine, but is there not an established instrument procedure to get you to it? It's hard to give much more advice without knowing where you are talking about, but in real life you probably aren't directly navigating to a VOR you don't have a line of sight to. Many terrain bound airports i.e. Eagle Colorado or Jackson Hole Wyoming have VORs at the airport precisely for this reason. 

Edited October 6, 2025Oct 6 by MrNuke

7 hours ago, G550flyer said:

Yep, that's what I would do. Tune it up and fly your departure and pick it up. Who wants to fly VOR to VOR these days😜.

I know the GNS cannot pick up radio signals from a VOR but it knows their location coordinates. Other than for backup purposes in case all the satellites get shot out of the sky and lack of GPS equipment in the aircraft, is there any reason at all to still use a VOR?

7 hours ago, MrNuke said:

VFR that is fine, but is there not an established instrument procedure to get you to it? It's hard to give much more advice without knowing where you are talking about, but in real life you probably aren't directly navigating to a VOR you don't have a line of sight to. Many terrain bound airports i.e. Eagle Colorado or Jackson Hole Wyoming have VORs at the airport precisely for this reason. 

Departure runway30 in KHAF with the OSI VOR as the first leg.

IFR, follow the sid. 

9 hours ago, Matt Sdeel said:

Departure runway30 in KHAF with the OSI VOR as the first leg.

OSI is on the top of one of the higher "mountains" there. MSFS 2024 allows it to be picked up from the ground at Half Moon. If that isn't the case in real life you'd be picking it up really soon after takeoff. So in this case, I don't think your orignal premise really applies here. With that said... 

7 hours ago, Dave_YVR said:

IFR, follow the sid. 

KHAF doesn't have a side, but it does have a RNAV obstacle departure off of Runway 30 that ATC will make you fly in IFR conditions, and HAF is notorious for often having fog. 

https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/2510/06675SEEMS.PDF

So Matt, what would typically happen there if weather is bad is you'd fly that obstacle departure out over the ocean to get above the terrain and likely the fog layer and at some point, likely before Seems once you've gained sufficient altitude you'd be vectored back to OSI. 

  

9 hours ago, Matt Sdeel said:

I know the GNS cannot pick up radio signals from a VOR but it knows their location coordinates. 

The 530 absolutely picks up signals from VORs... 

Edited October 7, 2025Oct 7 by MrNuke

6 hours ago, MrNuke said:

KHAF doesn't have a side, but it does have a RNAV obstacle departure

Sorry, yes I was referring to the DP. 

6 hours ago, MrNuke said:

ATC will make you fly in IFR conditions

KHAF does not have a tower. So ATC from somewhere else?

 

6 hours ago, MrNuke said:

The 530 absolutely picks up signals from VORs... 

Yes, forgot about that. The 530 is multifunction and has a NAV receiver which can pick-up VOR/LOC signals.

You would need to get your IFR clearance from Norcal Tracon. Even if there was a Tower they too would get your IFR clearance through Norcal Tracon. 

2 hours ago, Matt Sdeel said:

KHAF does not have a tower. So ATC from somewhere else?

A tower isn't required for IFR flights to or from an airport. In real life, especially in this case the where the terrain does matter, you'd call Norcal Approach on a cell phone* to get your IFR clearance and release. Then you'd contact them on the frequency they gave you in the release once you are in the air. In this case that is likely another reason for the RNAV departure out of the water to establish altitude to get into radio and radar contact with ATC. As soon as that is established, they'd give you vectors to OSI. 

 

*The cell phone practice will vary from airport to airport. If it is expected that you'd be able to receive the frequency on the ground, you'd contact them over the radio just as you would at a towered airport. 

Edited October 7, 2025Oct 7 by MrNuke

30 minutes ago, MrNuke said:

you'd call Norcal Approach on a cell phone to get your IFR clearance and release.

Got a bunch of follow up questions:
1. What happens when you file a file plan using Skyvector?  Does it have to be approved before you can fly IFR? How? Is 'clearance and release' documented?

2. Who compares filed IFR flight plans to make sure that no two flight plans will end up with two aircrafts colliding with each other or that there is proper separation between two aircraft?

3. Who checks to make sure that a flight plan filed is valid for the aircraft eg. does it have the right equipment and up-to-date?

4. What is the timeline for flight plans ie. does it have a use-by and an expiration date?

5. What if the pilot changes his or her mind mid-flight? Is a new file plan filed? To who and how is the flight plan disseminated?

6. What if you fly IFR without a flight plan. Who would know? What penalties are involved? 

7. Do countries have different flight plan procedures or are they standardized world wide? If you fly from Japan to Taiwan and you don't know Japanese or Chinese - like an English speaker in an around-the-world trip - how are flight plans filed then, in Chinese and Japanese too?



 

4 hours ago, Matt Sdeel said:

Got a bunch of follow up questions:
1. What happens when you file a file plan using Skyvector?  Does it have to be approved before you can fly IFR? How? Is 'clearance and release' documented?

The short answer is that it goes into an FAA computer system (various systems) for validation. So yes on a rudimentary level it has to be approved. I'm not really sure what you are asking on the last question? The aforementioned "approval" isn't clearance to actually fly yet. When you file a flight plan you list a departure time. Flight plans in the U.S. can be filed up to 24 hours in advance and are good for 2 hours after the departure time listed. About 30 minutes before your estimated time of departure the first "strip" is issued to the initial center where you'd be requesting clearance. 

In the case here being discussed departing Half Moon Bay, uncontrolled, you'd again call Nor Cal approach tell them who you are, where you're going, and request your IFR clearance. Assuming everything is good, they'd come back with the CRAFT. 1) Where you are cleared to. Here it would be SEEMS via the SEEMS ONE obstacle departure procedure. 2) Route: "cleared as filed" 3) Altitude: climb and maintain 3,000 expect filed altitude within 15 minutes of departure, etc. 4) Frequency: Contact Norcal Approach on 133.95 when airborne 5) Transponder Code: Squack  2254. You'd read that all back to them and they'd issue clearance. 

Being an uncontrolled airport adds another layer though. You need a release. Now pending weather, traffic conditions, controller load, etc. They may given you an immediate release i.e. full clearance you are good to now. That could also include Clearance void i.e. you can go now, but you need to go soon. Cleared to depart HAF, clearance void if not off within 5 minutes. They could tell you we aren't going to release you before a certain time. Lastly they could tell you to hold for release i.e. stand by we'll fit you in where we can.

This is a pretty easy read that goes over most of this. 

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html/chap5_section_2.html

4 hours ago, Matt Sdeel said:

2. Who compares filed IFR flight plans to make sure that no two flight plans will end up with two aircrafts colliding with each other or that there is proper separation between two aircraft?

This is essentially what air traffic controllers are doing. The most common reason for a hold for release mentioned above would be to ensure separation of traffic. This is especially common at smaller reliever and or general aviation airports near much larger airports. 

4 hours ago, Matt Sdeel said:

3. Who checks to make sure that a flight plan filed is valid for the aircraft eg. does it have the right equipment and up-to-date?

The computer on a rudimentary level checks to make sure the flight plan is valid for an aircraft. Regulations and inspections ensure the aircraft has valid, functioning equipment to comply with IFR regulations. 

4 hours ago, Matt Sdeel said:

4. What is the timeline for flight plans ie. does it have a use-by and an expiration date?

In the U.S. generally if it isn't used within 2 hours of the filed departure it is cancelled. 

4 hours ago, Matt Sdeel said:

5. What if the pilot changes his or her mind mid-flight? Is a new file plan filed? To who and how is the flight plan disseminated?

Yes a new flight plan would be filed by and issued via ATC and disseminated to any center impacted just the same way filing an original flight would be. 

4 hours ago, Matt Sdeel said:

6. What if you fly IFR without a flight plan. Who would know? What penalties are involved? 

Any towered airport you tried to fly into in IMC. Air Traffic Control on some level via radar. You'd likely lose your license, face stiff fines, and potential jail time. Many a pilot have also inadvertently killed themselves and sadly others by doing this. 

4 hours ago, Matt Sdeel said:

7. Do countries have different flight plan procedures or are they standardized world wide? If you fly from Japan to Taiwan and you don't know Japanese or Chinese - like an English speaker in an around-the-world trip - how are flight plans filed then, in Chinese and Japanese too?

This is a broad generalization but typically an ICAO flight plan is filed as well as one with the countries involved. This is also a reason why airlines have dispatchers whose purpose is to take care of this. 

Edited October 8, 2025Oct 8 by MrNuke

2 hours ago, MrNuke said:

The short answer is that it goes into an FAA computer system (various systems) for validation. So yes on a rudimentary level it has to be approved. I'm not really sure what you are asking on the last question? The aforementioned "approval" isn't clearance to actually fly yet. When you file a flight plan you list a departure time. Flight plans in the U.S. can be filed up to 24 hours in advance and are good for 2 hours after the departure time listed. About 30 minutes before your estimated time of departure the first "strip" is issued to the initial center where you'd be requesting clearance. 

In the case here being discussed departing Half Moon Bay, uncontrolled, you'd again call Nor Cal approach tell them who you are, where you're going, and request your IFR clearance. Assuming everything is good, they'd come back with the CRAFT. 1) Where you are cleared to. Here it would be SEEMS via the SEEMS ONE obstacle departure procedure. 2) Route: "cleared as filed" 3) Altitude: climb and maintain 3,000 expect filed altitude within 15 minutes of departure, etc. 4) Frequency: Contact Norcal Approach on 133.95 when airborne 5) Transponder Code: Squack  2254. You'd read that all back to them and they'd issue clearance. 

Being an uncontrolled airport adds another layer though. You need a release. Now pending weather, traffic conditions, controller load, etc. They may given you an immediate release i.e. full clearance you are good to now. That could also include Clearance void i.e. you can go now, but you need to go soon. Cleared to depart HAF, clearance void if not off within 5 minutes. They could tell you we aren't going to release you before a certain time. Lastly they could tell you to hold for release i.e. stand by we'll fit you in where we can.

This is a pretty easy read that goes over most of this. 

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html/chap5_section_2.html

This is essentially what air traffic controllers are doing. The most common reason for a hold for release mentioned above would be to ensure separation of traffic. This is especially common at smaller reliever and or general aviation airports near much larger airports. 

The computer on a rudimentary level checks to make sure the flight plan is valid for an aircraft. Regulations and inspections ensure the aircraft has valid, functioning equipment to comply with IFR regulations. 

In the U.S. generally if it isn't used within 2 hours of the filed departure it is cancelled. 

Yes a new flight plan would be filed by and issued via ATC and disseminated to any center impacted just the same way filing an original flight would be. 

Any towered airport you tried to fly into in IMC. Air Traffic Control on some level via radar. You'd likely lose your license, face stiff fines, and potential jail time. Many a pilot have also inadvertently killed themselves and sadly others by doing this. 

This is a broad generalization but typically an ICAO flight plan is filed as well as one with the countries involved. This is also a reason why airlines have dispatchers whose purpose is to take care of this. 

Wow! Thank you much for answering the questions. 

I created a test route using the default flight planner for the Cessna 172 using a rwy 30 departure in MSFS 2020.

After take-off, do I hand fly or do I use auto-pilot to OSI? Based on the replies it looks like I'll have to hand fly during the climb since the GNS is not able to detect the VOR. Do I have that right? Kindly confirm.

If I hand fly, do I bank to the left and go over the ocean (my understanding is that it is a protected marine area of some sort and one is not supposed to fly over it), or do I go over the mountains (I believe KHAF has a fly pattern to the right from rwy 30) to go to OSI?

If I want to use the auto-pilot at what altitude and when do I engage it? 

Should I set the CDI to VLOC (if I wanted to fly using a VOR) or GPS before I take-off?  Also, to where should I point my heading bug (it's set to 'N' by MSFS when  runway30 is selected as the departure in the flight planner)?

17 hours ago, MrNuke said:

what would typically happen there if weather is bad is you'd fly that obstacle departure out over the ocean to get above the terrain and likely the fog layer and at some point, likely before Seems once you've gained sufficient altitude you'd be vectored back to OSI. 

Is the test route I created flyable in real life? Will cruising at 4000 ft all the way to KMRY be ok (since I like flying low and slow).  If the route planner includes the SEEMS fix for the IFR flight as a fix, can I just ignore it (it's so out of the way and seems like a waste of fuel - the flight planner also includes SFO which doesn't make sense to me as a fix when selecting the SEEMS departure in the planner)?

Given the location and route (near KSFO - a major airport hub) and problems with the airport - terrain, turbulence and lots of fog, do I need to contact ATC for VFR flights?

Thanks in advance.