Skip to content
View in the app

A better way to browse. Learn more.

The AVSIM Community

A full-screen app on your home screen with push notifications, badges and more.

To install this app on iOS and iPadOS
  1. Tap the Share icon in Safari
  2. Scroll the menu and tap Add to Home Screen.
  3. Tap Add in the top-right corner.
To install this app on Android
  1. Tap the 3-dot menu (⋮) in the top-right corner of the browser.
  2. Tap Add to Home screen or Install app.
  3. Confirm by tapping Install.

Delta might be facing a class-action lawsuit...

Featured Replies

OK  - I've captured 20 shots of the various stages from pre TOD to turn-off from the video.  I'll attach them over a number of posts with what I'm seeing and doing at each stage if folks are interested?  I can also post the video, maybe at the end, if anyone wants to see the steps in continuity - although the visuals won't be great.

If folks are still interested, I'll post the first few stages in the morning (UK time).  And I won't be at all offended if anyone shouts "STOP!!  NO MORE!!"  :smile:   

Ryzen 7 9800x3D @5.2GHz; ASUS X670-P Motherboard; nVidia 4080 (factory o/c); 32G 5600MHz DDR5 SDRAM; Pimax Crystal Light VR Headset; Quest 3 VR Headset

  • Replies 67
  • Views 4.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Most Popular Posts

  • northtexas
    northtexas

    As a Delta Air Lines retiree I'm just thankful that you were not referring to the real airline. 😁

  • UrgentSiesta
    UrgentSiesta

    As a long time Miami resident and child of UAL flight crew, I have to say I don’t see much out of the ordinary here…? 🤣

  • Pardon me if I state the obvious, but you likely went wrong when you deleted the manual entry and then forced the deletion of the discontinuity. In my experience with the Fenix bus, the inclusion of t

As I say, shout if this gets tedious.

The general disclaimer - this are simply the steps I have taken to successfully 'auto land' 6-7 times.  Each time I generally make at least one error (probably many more) and this example is no exception! :wink:   I'll point it out when I get to it.  I gather, also, it is NOT the way real-world pilots would normally land the A350 - this is more related to where I found the bits in the IniBuild's modelling to actually get it on the ground (after trying numerous times before and NOT getting it on the ground :laugh: )

The flight:

EGKK (London Gatwick) R26L to EBBR (Brussels) R25R  

Video/Photos Start at:

Around 10 miles from TOD from 10000ft.  The route will pass the airport at the right and then do a descending right hand turn, and then left turn before capturing the ILS:

1-Screens-at-cruise-height.jpg

 

 

I don't think RW pilots do it quite like this, but shortly before TOD I will trigger the descent by turning the ALT down to 2000', which is the height where the first final approach waypoint of the ILS system is set at.  I will then press the ALT knob to put it into 'Managed' mode.

Now around 2 miles from TOD:

3-Nearing-TOD.jpg

So now press the ALT knob, set at 2000', to trigger 'Managed' mode :

4-Push-ALT-for-Managed-Mode.jpg

 

I have my two pedestal displays showing the Flight Plan on the Co-pilot screen and the Perf pages, including the essential orange-lettered 'Activate Appr' button on the Captain's screen:

6-Copilot-FP-Pilot-Perf-with-Approach-Ac

 

Next post, I'll press that button (the Orange one - ignore the 'hand' that appears to be just about to send the panel into darkness!) and show you what happened next!   

Edited by AJZip2

Ryzen 7 9800x3D @5.2GHz; ASUS X670-P Motherboard; nVidia 4080 (factory o/c); 32G 5600MHz DDR5 SDRAM; Pimax Crystal Light VR Headset; Quest 3 VR Headset

I'm not quite sure when is the best/correct time to 'Activate Appr' in the flight management system (not the Appr button on the autopilot panel, that is done at the usual stage), but I triggered mine pretty soon after starting the TOD descent.

I pressed the 'Activate Appr?' button and the resulting 'Confirm' pop up:

  12-and-Confirm.jpg

 

The aircraft was already following the glide path, but now the engine speed management kicked in too with an intended reduction from 240 knots to, eventually, 134 knots landing speed.  A magenta bracket (teeny line on the left of the green ball in this shot) appeared next to the green dot on the Alt gauge, I believe confirming that all was in normal range in terms of glide slope capture.  However, you can see that the green ball is below the centre line on the altitude scale, meaning that the aircraft was now above the flight plan glide slope...and the green ball still dropping meant that this gap was getting bigger.

 13-Lag-as-ac-slows-down-and-ac-now-highe

From my understanding, when the magenta bracket disappears from the green ball, it means that the FMS can't correct this itself and now needs pilot intervention.  Basically, I guess, the aircraft is going too fast for this descent to be automatically corrected.  And, sure enough, the next event was the instruction to 'EXTEND SPEED BRK' (see below and note also the magenta bracket has disappeared from the green ball).  I gather that application of speedbrakes is non-preferred practice in the RW as it adds fuel inefficiency - and I'm speculating that this is why RW pilots tend to step down the altitudes progressively rather than do what I did - which was basically saying to the FMS "I've got you to 10000' feet; I've told you to drop to 2000'...oh and I'm going very fast...so over to YOU FMS!!' :laugh:

Anyway, the FMS wasn't having anything to do with what I'd got it into and told me to do MY job and slow down!

14-Lost-magenta-bracket-AC-advises-use-s

 

Ryzen 7 9800x3D @5.2GHz; ASUS X670-P Motherboard; nVidia 4080 (factory o/c); 32G 5600MHz DDR5 SDRAM; Pimax Crystal Light VR Headset; Quest 3 VR Headset

And so, speed brakes were applied, the speed started dropping and the green ball started rising again as my overshoot was corrected.  As I started approaching this stage's planned speed of just under 190 knots, the magenta bracket returned and all was good in the world again. 

Speed brakes were retracted in preparation for the next step - activating APPR on the autopilot panel (this time, the little cursor hand is in the correct place!).

15-APPR-Activated.jpg

And here is a confession - by now the "LS" Landing System buttons were supposed to also both be on.  And they were in my previous efforts.  This try was the best capture for the video and I have left it as is.  It didn't seem to make any difference to the landing itself (my previous attempts had always had them switched on) but I now recognise there was a warning beep and light that came on and so, clearly, the aircraft also knew it was supposed to be activated.

Anyway, with APPR now pressed, the ILS info and magenta diamond appeared:

16-Green-ball-back-in-range-and-ILS-Diam

 

 

So far, so good.  All being well, the next post should have us preparing for landing, activating ILS and touchdown... 

Edited by AJZip2

Ryzen 7 9800x3D @5.2GHz; ASUS X670-P Motherboard; nVidia 4080 (factory o/c); 32G 5600MHz DDR5 SDRAM; Pimax Crystal Light VR Headset; Quest 3 VR Headset

So, the green ball is back in auto-manageable range with it's magenta bracket once again visible and the ILS frequency and range  are showing, with the magenta diamond slowly approaching the mid line  of the altitude gauge.  In terms of FMS, the aircraft is still a little high but can now be managed down to the intended flight path automatically, providing that I, the pilot, also do what is required of me.

16-Green-ball-back-in-range-and-ILS-Diam

 

And one of those things is dropping the flaps and undercarriage when I am supposed to!

The FMS display helps - it shows when Flaps 1 and 2 should be lowered.  Here you can also see the initial waypoint of the ILS:

  17-Flap-positions-marked.jpg

 

 

Both the ILS diamond and the green ball are at or near the target centre line and I have now dropped Flaps 1.  We are approaching ILS waypoint B25R and the auto speed has now triggered the drop towards landing speed.  I will progressively drop to Flap 2 and then Flap 3  

19-F1-down-ILS-diamond-centred-Speed-on-

 

 

ILS is captured and the runway is in sight.  Previous attempts showed the G/S and LOC  as G/S* and LOC*  This shot doesn't have that...it might be because I'd forgotten to turn on the LS Landing system on or maybe because I have just turned OFF the Auto Throttle.  That said, the aircraft is still following the ILS Glide Path 

20-ILS-captured-AThr-off-Rway-in-sight.j

 

At about 500'  I also turned off the autopilot and hand landed, just adding a touch of flare out, landing quite softly just above minimum speed.

Autobrakes came on, I applied reverse thrust and was able to turn off here, I'm guessing around 2/3rds down the runway:

22-Turn-off-Flaps-up.jpg

 

And that's it!  All are very welcome to point out errors in this - I won't be offended and will learn how its supposed to be done.

If anyone wants to see the video these stills have come from then happy to post it, but be aware that the compression of the video renders most instrument detail largely unreadable.

Thank you for your patience if you've made it this far  :smile:

Ryzen 7 9800x3D @5.2GHz; ASUS X670-P Motherboard; nVidia 4080 (factory o/c); 32G 5600MHz DDR5 SDRAM; Pimax Crystal Light VR Headset; Quest 3 VR Headset

Oh and thanks once more to @P_7878 for passing on @Jack_Sawyer 's discovery of PostImages.org - it worked an absolute treat!!

Ryzen 7 9800x3D @5.2GHz; ASUS X670-P Motherboard; nVidia 4080 (factory o/c); 32G 5600MHz DDR5 SDRAM; Pimax Crystal Light VR Headset; Quest 3 VR Headset

47 minutes ago, AJZip2 said:

Oh and thanks once more to @P_7878 for passing on @Jack_Sawyer 's discovery of PostImages.org - it worked an absolute treat!!

Jack, always insists on simple and easy explanations (and means) to do things... 🙂...not many do...so, yes, give him the credit, and the member who provided that method.

I am on an annual subscription (usually with a chance to re-subscribe at 50% on renewals), so, I do not normally use such servers, but I value those sites being there, for folks, who use it occasionally.

BTW, after you're done (learning) here, do post your screenshots, in the (nearby) Screenshots Forum...and share your experience from your additional trips, 20 images allowed for post there. We need some new blood there...🙂...

2 hours ago, P_7878 said:

BTW, after you're done (learning) here, do post your screenshots, in the (nearby) Screenshots Forum...and share your experience from your additional trips, 20 images allowed for post there. We need some new blood there...🙂...

Yes - will do. 

I'll probably see if I can get some decent stills-shots from an earlier attempt through the Oculus Quest (the above were through the Crystal Light).  The Oculus images weren't quite sharp enough for anyone trying to follow the detail of the text explanations above - but certainly they are decent enough for general in cockpit and external photos.  And I did more external footage on that flight too 👍

Ryzen 7 9800x3D @5.2GHz; ASUS X670-P Motherboard; nVidia 4080 (factory o/c); 32G 5600MHz DDR5 SDRAM; Pimax Crystal Light VR Headset; Quest 3 VR Headset

Create an account or sign in to comment

Account

Navigation

Search

Search

Configure browser push notifications

Chrome (Android)
  1. Tap the lock icon next to the address bar.
  2. Tap Permissions → Notifications.
  3. Adjust your preference.
Chrome (Desktop)
  1. Click the padlock icon in the address bar.
  2. Select Site settings.
  3. Find Notifications and adjust your preference.